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Marlin 45-70 VS. Mossberg 12ga. Slug-Gun>???

Discussion in 'Hunting, Fishing & Camping' started by ULVER, Oct 25, 2003.

  1. ULVER

    ULVER Dixie Rebel

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    What has more basic stopping-power within 70 yards... on deer/boar??? A Marlin 45-70 or a Mossberg 12ga. Slug-Gun??? Classic 405gr. 45-70 or .72 cal., of 12ga. Slug???
     
  2. slugman

    slugman

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    IMO, with a BRENNEKE slug, the 12 gauge would be my choice on those size animals. As they got larger (big bears, moose ect) The heavy 45/70 loads (500GR GARRETTS) would be better.Between the 405 standard and the slug I would say it's about even.
     

  3. Guest

    Eh, I have shot hogs with both, I would put my vote with the .45-70, its higher velocity seems to put critters down with more authority. A plus for the shotgun slugs though is they are cheaper. Also, the .45-70 is inherently more accurate IMO.
     
  4. noway

    noway

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    I've shot both but never hunted with a 45-70 and I can say that both offers plenty of the same, for game within 70yrds.

    The 12ga is just as effective as the 45-70 at this range, but the 45-70 might be a better choice for picking off game at loooooooooooonger ranges.

    the only drawback (IMHO) is the 45-70 is pretty much a stout gun for all loads fired, and the recoil seems much more than a shotgun. I fired a couple of the Lever Actions in this caliber and they were brutal ;f
     
  5. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

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    Have shot both, and own both.
    There is "No Question," that on game animals, the 45-70 is heads above the shotgun.

    I "am not," saying the SG is not a good hunting gun.
    I 'am saying' that properly loaded, the 45-70, (my primary hunting gun),can take even some of the largest and most dagerous african game.

    With the BT 400/500 gr. or the Cast performance 405 gr, or the Ruckers 405 gr, (my favorite), and pushing the envelope 'just a tad' with 52 grs. H322, out of my Marlin 1895, made in 1972, it will reach about 1800-1850 M.V. This will make a man comfortable to hunt even cape buffalo. (although your shoulder will not be comfortable!) :)

    But since not many of us are hunting cape buffalo:

    Even with a load of 405 gr Rucker bullet, and a light load of 53gr. of Imr3031, this baby will 'end to end an Elk. This should be good enough foor deer. :)

    For a good, 'not bust your shoulder' deer load, the 405gr, with 38.5 grs. of Imr 3031 behind it, will take any deer that walks. even clean kill Elk as well.

    The 45-70 is truly a very veresital gun. Been around a long time, and i think it is here to stay. The SG, with proper slug, is a very good deer getter, out to about 75/100 yards. But that would be my limit of hunting with it, (perhaps very close range black bear). But given 'the choice between the two,'....Its the 45-70.


    HTH

    CanyonMan
     
  6. Guest

    What CanyonMan said. Right on!
     
  7. Guest

    Do you think a 12ga 3" magnum shell with a 1 1/4 oz slug would knock down a cape bufflo say at 30 yards? Or is there not enough "oompf" with that loading.

    Second question...Are there 10ga 3 or 3 1/2" magnum loadings with slugs? If so, would that work on a cape buffalo when comparing it to a .45-70???

    Thanks in advance.

    ps. in this months issue of American Shooter, there is a brief mentioning of the fact that Exxon hired and purchased people for "bear patrol" during the Valdiz oil spill. The company purchased Remington 870's and the folks behind those guns to protect the clean up workers on the shores of Alaska's Prince William Sound.

    What a cool job. I'm wondering what loadings they used. My game warden friend shot a black bear from only 12 feet away under a house with a 9 pellet 2 3/4" loading of 00buck. He had to shoot the bear 2 more times because the first loading didn't do squat. All 3 shots were chest/head shots (aka: vital areas). I was surprised that it took 3 shots of that loading to put down that pissed off black bear.
     
  8. ULVER

    ULVER Dixie Rebel

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    I wrote to Breneke, and they stated that with their 12ga. Magnum slug, out of a rifled barrel Marlin 695, large African game has been taken. It seems they are very full-caliber faced, as opposed to sabot, and fashioned extremely hard. Deep penetration with a .70plus caliber 500gr. slug might do the trick!!!
     
  9. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

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    Glock-Reaper,

    I have no dout as i said before, that i 12ga. slug can take a bear.
    But, as i said, it would be a close range affair. The late Elmer Keith, used to drop bears like flys shooting them at 'close range' in a garbage dump, with a 44mag handgun. A 45LC, even in a handgun, with heavy loads, and a cast bullet, is capable of taking the cape buff.

    But, again, if faced with the weapon of choice for such game as these, you will find that most calibers used, are very large and powerful, e.g. 375 h&h mag, 416 remington mag, 458 winchester mag etc.

    My point is this, the 45LC, the 444 marlin, and even the 45-70, are not heard of in this type of hunting senerio very often, (the 'exception' being the 45-70). A shotgun is a 'rarity' in this type of hunting. In all the years i have guided hunts, and been familiar with guides from,'here to there,' you will rarely ever hear of a shotgun being used (that is for elk and larger). In fact, and oddly enough, you will hear of a powereful handgun cartridge being used, before you will a shotgun.

    Can the shotgun "knock down a cape a "30 yards?" My answer to that one is... "I would not want to find out!" :) With any gun! That is getting pretty close to a cape buff.

    As for 10ga, 12ga, so forth... I think that if this is what your heart and mind are set on, and you are going to stick with deer size game, and hogs, You should go for it.

    But once again, 'over all', i would rather be armed with the 45-70, (speaking in the particular catagorie of guns we are talking about),
    than a shotgun of any kind.

    If a person wants to hunt anything from deer, to hogs, to elk to, (i believe, 'whatever'), i would not be afraid, what soever, with the 45-70, and the proper loads. Are there better and more powerful etc.? Yes! But we are talking here about 45-70 VS. shotguns.

    HTH.

    CanyonMan
     
  10. noway

    noway

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    { Second question...Are there 10ga 3 or 3 1/2" magnum loadings with slugs? If so, would that work on a cape buffalo when comparing it to a .45-70???}

    I know federal have a 3.5" 1.75oz slugs available for the 10ga (IIRC) I don't or haven't seen any in 3" inch and once again the 12ga will handle all or most of the 4 legged games here on the USA soil. So I guess a 10ga should be more than adequate also if you did the job and was in killing distance. That 1.75oz slugs is like 765gr of lead which is slightly heavier than most 45-70 loads and it should be going slightly slow then a typical 500gr 45-70 load.

    {He had to shoot the bear 2 more times because the first loading didn't do squat. All 3 shots were chest/head shots (aka: vital areas). I was surprised that it took 3 shots of that loading to put down that pissed off black bear.}

    Buckshot is pretty much pissed poor ammo for thick skinned animals, that's why it is called BUCK shot and not Bearshot and even with a Buck or Doe it is still marginal.

    I would not go up aganist a bear with buckshot of any size or loading.

    just my 2c
     
  11. water_daddy

    water_daddy

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    45-70 is definitely more accurate and retains energy better down range, Thereby being giving it the edge under gerneral circumstances. However, within close range such as the 70yds orginally mentioned or less, you will hard-pressed to say the 45-70 has greater lethality assuming you compare identical shot placements. Neither the 45-70 or the 12 gauge slug rely on expansion or generate enough speed to have an appreciable hydrostatic pressure effect. The 12 gauge slug will dump it's energy a little faster and make a bigger hole. Additionally penetration has not been an issue with the 500+ lb black bear I once witnessed fold up. So I would definitely prefer a semi or pump 12 gauge to track a bear as opposed to the lever 45-70. To each his own. I haven't made any big game kills with a 45-70, but I've used hotloaded 444s and they seem to match up comparitively.