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Marcus Luttrell, "Lone Survivor"

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by certifiedfunds, Apr 7, 2012.

  1. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    Did you read it? Thoughts?

    After starting it several times I finally finished it this week. Excellent book. Anyone know him?
     
  2. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    One thing I was trying to reconcile is that at the beginning of the book he talks about visiting the families of the deceased and reassuring them that their family member didn't feel any pain and died instantly.

    Then, later in the book he's fairly graphic about how each of them died.

    Not a criticism of Marcus, I'm just trying to figure it out. Is it a "Tell me what I want to hear" situation even though they both know or both will eventually know differently?
     

  3. carloglock19

    carloglock19

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    Good book I read a few months ago.
     
  4. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    Lone Survivor is basically a work of fiction based on an actual event. Marcus Luttrell had nothing to do with writting the book, other than meeting with Patrick Robinson for about an hour. It is basically a Navy endorsed puff-piece for the SEALs, which would have been fine with me, if the book stuck to any facts.

    To get a better account of Operation Red Wing (which was a Marine operation), read Ed Darack's "Victory Point".

    Taking nothing away from the sacrifices that Luttrell, his team mates, the 160th SOAR troops, and the other responding SEALs (and of course the Marines involved) made, they would have been better served if Patrick Robinson had told the correct and complete story. The actual story is just as brave and heroic, but is very different due to Darack writting by using actual facts, first-hand accounts, and records like Luttrell's AAR.

    The true story of Marcus Luttrell, Mike Murphy, Danny Dietz and Mathew Axelson, is part of a much larger story.

    Remember the references to 200+ Taliban that they were gunning down in droves during an hours long battle? They were attacked by 8-10 anti-coalition fighters, and didn't kill any of them in the battle that probably lasted less than an hour. And that's just the beginning of the horse-puckey in Lone Survivor.

    As I understand it, the movie based on Lone Survivor is due out in 2013. Mark Wahlberg is set to play Marcus Luttrell, though it doesn't look to be in production at this time, so it may never happen.

    ETA: Patrick Murphy, father of Michael Murphy, is pretty ticked about the book and it's completely stupid assertions that there were debates about killing the goat hearders. The SEALS followed the same ROEs as everyone else.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2012
  5. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    This is actually good news for me. I've heard Luttrell speak and it was good. The book,OTOH, sounds like it was written by a fifth-grader.
     
  6. CAcop

    CAcop

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    I had to tell a divorced and not getting along couple their son had died in a car accident. They wanted to know two things: 1. Did he suffer? And 2. How did it happen?

    He ran into the back end of a stopped semi at 65mph. What do you think the answers were?

    What would you do?

    Life ain't easy outside the bubble most people live in.
     
  7. k9medic

    k9medic

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    References?

    Thanks.
     
  8. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    Did you read my whole post before you replied?

    He told the family one thing and then wrote another. My question revolves around the contradiction. In other words, obviously he knew there was a decent chance the families would read the book.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2012
  9. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    I'm curious as well. Don't want to put words in your mouth but you said "work of fiction". It has Marcus' name on it. Did marcus lie or did he not have creative approval?

    Not challenging you but curious what info you're basing this on.
     
  10. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    Start here.

    Then read the book.
     
  11. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    See my post above.

    I seriously doubt Marcus lied. Rather, Patrick Robinson took the very few scraps of info that Marcus provided during the hour or so they spent together, and then absolutely fabricated most of the story.

    Even Patrick Murphy, Father of Michael Murphy, is perturbed by "Lone Survivor".

    "Victory Point" tells the entire story of Operation Redwing.

    Here's a brief over-view of just a few of the completely incorrect parts of "Lone Survivor".

    1. Redwing was a Marine operation, not a SOF operation. SOF was only part of the operation due to doctrine that only allows for the 160th SOAR to work with SOF troops, not Marines. SOF troops were included at the last minute so the Marines could utilize 160th SOAR aviation assets. The original Marine recon team was to be their basic 4 Marine team, "plussed-up" with 4 additional Marine riflemen for support. They were going to walk in, not go in by helicopter.

    2. The SEAL team Luttrell was part of was flat-out told by the Marines that had planned Operation Redwing (and had been walking those mountains for weeks and knew the area), that the communications gear they were taking was nowhere near powerful enough to ensure proper communications. The SEALS stayed with their smaller, lighter and less powerful comm gear, and died because of it.

    3. There were only 8-10 fighters that ambushed the SEAL team. Not 200 or so that Lone SUrvivor describes. Two of those fighters were not shooting, but rather were running two seperate video cameras that captured the ambush. Military intel later got copies of those videos, confirming the numbers of anti-coalition forces involved in the ambush.

    4. Luttrell's SEAL team was in no way shape or form tasked with any sniping or assaulting of Amahd Shah, they were strictly to survey 3 known AOIs (areas of interest) that Shah's sat phone had been found to frequent. A SEAL assault team, with a heavy Marine cordon of the area, was going to make the actual assault.

    5. There was never any consideration of killing those goat hearders. SOF personnel are under the same ROE's as any other coalition troops. The SEALs screwed themselves after being "soft compromised" by not having the correct comm gear. Thus, when Shah's ambush started, they were unable to call in artillery support from the Dog House 105MM battery, on the pre-sighted targeting info the Marines had provided the SEAL team with. Of course they were un-able to call for a timely extract after their initial "soft compromise", or communicate with the rapid-response team of SEALs and Marines that went in after the first Night Stalker MH-53 full of SEALs and 160th SOAR personnel was shot-down.

    6. Michael Murphy did not have a seperate cell phone. Their comm gear had a built-in irridium-sat back-up that briefly allowed them to call in for help, but even the sat reception in that area was not good enough to save them. Cell phone towers did not exist in that part of the Hindu Kush until long after the ambush of the SEALs.

    7. During Operation Redwing II, a 3 man Marine "bounding over-watch" recon team was ambushed in exactly the same manner, near the same spot, as the SEAL team had been a few weeks earlier. Due to the fact that they had the correct comm gear, they were able to call in a Dog House 105MM RAP (rocket assist projectile) artillery strike that stopped the assault, and one Marine shot 3 of Shah's fighters at very close range with his M4.

    8. About an hour after the ambush started, and the SEAL team had already been out of communications with their base for quite some time (the actual ambush was over in minutes, not hours), a 160th SOAR MH-53 helicopter was loaded with 8 other SEALs and took off for the ambush sight. A flight of Apache attack helicopters were en-route to assault their landing area before they attempted to insert. The SEAL commander was in contact with the flight of Apaches, and told them they were not going to wait for them, they were going in without their support. The Apaches were just a few minutes behind them, flying at max-power, screaming to be allowed to prep the landing area, but the SEAL commander boldy/bravely/stupidly told them they could "soften-up" the landing area after they were on the ground, they were not going to wait for them. They never made it to the ground in one piece.

    After the MH-53 was shot down, all further CSAR operations utilizing helicopters was shut-down. The senior Marine aviator Combat Controller made the decision that no further helicopters were to enter the area, it was deemed to risky to allow further helicopter operations.

    I could go on and on. Buy Victory Point.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2012
  12. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    Holy. ****.

    I want my money back (unless Marcus made a little off of it)
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2012
  13. CAcop

    CAcop

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    Read what I said. People want to know it was quick and how. Basically to prove it was quick. I didn't think I was being too opaque.
     
  14. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    I know, it sucks.

    I was quite pissed about "Lone Survivor" after reading "Victory Point".

    Unfortuantely Ed Darack was killed in Lybia during the fighting.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2012
  15. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    I get that. My point being is that the book goes into great detail explaining that it wasn't.

    A contradiction after he tells family otherwise.
     
  16. k9medic

    k9medic

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    Thanks for the link. I read Lone Survivor in one sitting when it first came out.

    Much like Black Hawk Down and In the Company of Heroes (Mike Durant) I'm sure there are several differences depending on who you talk to.
     
  17. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    Since I have read BHD, but not Durant's book, I can't compare the differences between those two books with the massive differences between "Lone Survivor" and "Victory Point".

    Operation Red Wing, and Red Wing II were much larger and much more "Marine" conventional at their core. "Lone Survivor" would lead you to believe that Red Wing was a short, disasterous SEAL operation, small and focused in scope, when it was actually a quite large and conventional Marine operation.

    FWIW, based on what I have read, the ambush of the SEAL team was vicious and over fast. Shah's ambush took place in an old logging area, just below the Hindu Kush tree-line. Shah's men ambushed the SEAL team from prepared fighting positions behind felled trees, with heavy machine guns, mortars, RPGs, and AK-47 fire.

    When the SEALs attempted to flee the initial ambush, they moved down into a gulch, or valley on the side of the huge mountain the fight took place on, running and shooting for their lives at distant enemies they could not see. Once in the gulch or valley, absolutely no communications were possible, the terrain blocked all reception. Once into the gulch, they encountered a 2nd prepared position that took them under fire from their flank, and in the cross-fire everyone was killed but Marcus.

    Despite the fact that the Marines had supplied Murphy's team with co-ordinates for pre-planned fire from Dog House's 105MM artillery, they never stood a chance without the ability to call in the artillery support.

    It was over fast.

    As sad as it is, the SEALs were the victims of one seriously bad decision. They chose to ignore the Marine's warnings that their communications gear was not going to work deep in the Hindu Kush, and paid the ultimate price.

    In the videos of the ambush's aftermath, Shah's fighters showed-off all of the equipment they stripped off the dead SEALs. They had stacks of fully loaded M-4 5.56 magazines, M203 rounds, the SEAL's SOPMOD M-4s, along with the SEAL's electronic/communications gear, including their Panasonic Tough Book with a bullet hole through it. Shah's tech guy in Pakistan was later able to remove the hard-drive from the Tough Book, and get quite a bit of intel from it. The idea that the SEALs fought for hours until they were almost out of ammo is pure fantasy.

    The part in Lone Survivor where, shortly after Marcus is rescued by the Army SOF personnel, he helped to call in air-strikes on the droves of Shah's forces streaming down the distant mountain-side to attack the village that sheltered him, illuminated by lights? The night the lights went out for the Taliban?

    Never happened.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2012
  18. RayB

    RayB Retired Member

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    Lone Survivor is next up for me!

    A few weeks back I brought in the latest Jack Reacher novel (I forget which--it's got a kidnapped FBI agent and outlaw survivalist camp), Lucifer's Hammer, Fate is the Hunter, and Lone Survivor, from Amazon. I'll be starting the latter tomorrow...

    By the bye, Fate is the Hunter is outstanding, and in particular, you pilots really ought to enjoy it! These are the memoirs of a pilot in the early days of air transport! I give it 5/5 stars and I'm not even a pilot!

    I'm ducking out of this thread before I read too much!

    --Ray
     
  19. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    Oh Ray....

    Poor, poor Ray.

    If only you allowed people to send you PMs.:rofl::rofl:
     
  20. Hamguy

    Hamguy

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    I wondered about those numbers while reading LS. It also seemed each and every one was shot "right between the eyes".