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Man with gun in Walmart arrested for refusing to show permit

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by TBO, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. Chuck TX

    Chuck TX CLM

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    How...progressive.
     
  2. hamster

    hamster NRA Life Member

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    Agreed. I would hope any officer would be wearing their department uniform. I place orders of magnitude more trust in police officers than some strange "store security" guys.

    I don't know the law where this guy was, but I don't see a problem with showing ID when asked and given a valid reason. Unfortunately the sheeple fear armed citizens, but the officer was simply doing his job here.
     

  3. pipedreams

    pipedreams Member

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    According to the article he was outside carrying which is rather dumb to start with but does not require a CC permit. I'm suspect of the article since it says he had a permit to carry as well as a permit to purchase a handgun. It seems rather dumb to go to the sheriff's office pay and wait to get a permit to purchase a handgun if you already have a CC permit. If you do not have a CC in Iowa you have to apply for a permit to purchase a handgun which is good for a year. I suspect the author may be a bit behind on what the law is.

    The first comment is rather interesting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  4. JJohnson

    JJohnson Call me Jeff

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    Yep. It's also freezing cold in the winter and broiling hot in the summer.
     
  5. TK-421

    TK-421

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    At least they get to open carry. :tongueout:
     
  6. JJohnson

    JJohnson Call me Jeff

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    There is that. Can you do that in TX?
     
  7. pipedreams

    pipedreams Member

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
  8. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Sweet isn't it?
     
  9. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    No. Texans have to get government permission to carry.

    Don't Mess With Texas
     
  10. Patchman

    Patchman Florist

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    The guy went to jail. He should also lose his job.
     
  11. noway

    noway

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    Whatever we do, we need to follow the letter of the law

    Here's the statute of IOWA law and yes you need a permit for open or conceal carry


    i. A person who has in the person's possession and who displays to a peace officer on demand a valid permit to carry weapons which has been issued to the person, and whose conduct is within the limits of that permit. A person shall not be convicted of a violation of this section if the person produces at the person's trial a permit to carry weapons which was valid at the time of the alleged offense and which would have brought the person's conduct within this exception if the permit had been produced at the time of the alleged offense.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  12. noway

    noway

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    Why is that so? Please advise.
     
  13. pipedreams

    pipedreams Member

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    Why? He may of acted dumb but why his job.

    "Iowa law specifically provides that a person carrying a weapon must show his permit when asked by a peace officer. Note also that the charge will probably be dismissed if he produces the permit at trial."


    "Section 724.4(3)(i) provides "A person who has in the person’s possession and who displays to a peace officer on demand a valid permit to carry weapons which has been issued to the person, and whose conduct is within the limits of that permit. A person shall not be convicted of a violation of this section if the person produces at the person’s trial a permit to carry weapons which was valid at the time of the alleged offense and which would have brought the person’s conduct within this exception if the permit had been produced at the time of the alleged offense."
     
  14. GIockGuy24

    GIockGuy24 Bring M&M's

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    The difference may be his conduct though. The difference between "refusing" to show the permit and just not having it.

    Once I was way out in the middle nowhere, with nothing around for miles. The biggest business in the whole county seemed to be a Super Walmart that was open 24 hours. I stopped there because there wasn't anything else around. I went inside and they had county police officers in uniform working security there.
     
  15. TK-421

    TK-421

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    No. The one state you'd figure would be the most pro-gun in the entire country, and you can't open carry. Oh, and don't even think about printing, or accidentally exposing your gun, like if your shirt lifts up. Both will get you in serious trouble, and is equivalent to open carry, from what I gather. At least in florida you're allowed to print, and if your shirt lifts up and exposes your gun, like if you're reaching to the top shelf for something, nobody cares. The problem is that the legislature meets every two years, and only for 140 days, and they're so busy with the budget and other ****, that they don't have time to discuss open carry. It was on the table last session, but they didn't do anything with it. Hopefully this session they'll allow it.
     
  16. rednoved

    rednoved NRA Member

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  17. pipedreams

    pipedreams Member

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    Section 724.4(3)(i) of the Iowa code only applies to conceal carry and has nothing to do with open carry. You can open carry without a conceal carry permit and always could but you have to be careful you don't run afoul a local municipal ordnance. I would say it is unwise to open carry unless you are hunting or on your own private property.
     
  18. brboyer

    brboyer

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    I was not there so do not know the whole story, but I have to question the legality for demand of the license/permit.

    There is quite a bit of case law on this subject, but LEO that work 'security' gigs are operating under the authority of the property owner, not the government, until such time as he/she has RS of a crime being committed.

    Just because he was a LEO in uniform, does not necessarily mean that he was in the lawful performance of his duties at the time he requested/demanded the license/permit, nor does it mean that the encounter was a lawful detention/seizure of his person under the 4th Amendment.

    Not sure how IOWA case law stands on open carry as RS of a crime.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  19. JJohnson

    JJohnson Call me Jeff

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    Does it take anything besides a 4473 to buy a pistol from a dealer? Can you just walk in, lay down cash and walk away with one? Background checks, etc?
     
  20. TK-421

    TK-421

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    All it takes is money and a background check. A background check usually takes 15 minutes, unless it's delayed. You fill out the paper work, they call it in, if you're good to go, you walk out with the firearm. If you're delayed, they have three days to say no, otherwise you can go and pick it up after three days.

    When I bought my 23, I walked in, I was delayed, probably because it was the first time I bought a firearm, and they told me three days. They ended up calling me the next day, I went and picked it up and drove home with my new gun five minutes after walking into the store the next day.

    The nice thing is that they don't have to do a background check if you have a CHL. You just walk in, fill out the paper work, hand over your cash and your CHL, and you walk out with your gun a few minutes later.

    Of course, that's presuming the guys at the gun store gave me correct information, but I'm pretty sure they did, since they do this for a living.