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Man shot at my gun range today

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by norton, Apr 27, 2012.

  1. norton

    norton

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    This is a bit of a story, so bear with me-
    Today, I stopped at my gun range to shoot my flintlock rifle. Our range is set up so that the pistol and rifle bays are at opposite ends of the facility. The rifle range has a long row of benches that face backstops at 50-100 and 200 yards. Off to the right is a 25 yard range. the 25 yard range is enclosed on 3 sides by earthen berms. I was shooting a postal match by myself at the 25 yard range. Two other shooters were in the long row of benches, firing at the 50-200 yard berms. Because of my position, I could not see them shooting but of course could hear their gunfire.
    I had just taken my first shot with my flinter, when I heard what sounded like full auto rifle fire coming from the range next to me. Although pistol caliber full auto weapons are allowed, rifle caliber full auto weapons are not. I had walked down to my backstop to see where my shot had landed, when a man came up to me and said " a man has been shot". Call 911. I thought he was kidding at first, but looked over and saw a man laying on the ground. I called 911-thank God I remembered to take my cell phone with me-and walked over to the victim. He was conscious, but in alot of pain from a stomach wound. I looked down and part of his intestine was protruding from the side of his abdomen. I was able to to get him to stop touching it and I held his hand and tried to encourage him while we waited. Eventually police, EMT's and then a lifeline helicopter came and took him away.
    He was shooting an SKS. His buddy later told me it was a Korean war bring back. I am still trying to sort out why it went full auto-that was the brrraaap-I heard. His buddy confirmed this. I gave a statement to the police and cleaned up my area and left. He was shooting factory Wolf ammo. Not reloads. I have to admit that several hours later I am still a little rattled by this.
     
  2. norton

    norton

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    I should add that when it went full auto, he had it down at his side and was releasing the bolt to chamber a round. I am not sure how many rounds he had in it, because they had been shooting for a while and there were shell casings all over the ground. His buddy said when it fired the shooter got scared and must have tried to toss the weapon away. It actually landed on the ground behind where he was laying.
     

  3. PBCounty

    PBCounty

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    Wow man. So how do you think it resulted in him getting gut shot like that? I'd still be rattled too.

    ETA: Gotcha.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2012
  4. token5gtd

    token5gtd

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    SKS has no spring to return the firing pin to the rear. free floating design.

    firing pin channel was really dirty and/or caked with cosmoline. Firing pin gets stuck forward after the first round (in this case the firing pin must have already been stuck forward when he released the bolt) ... then you have an unstoppable machine gun until it runs out.

    common malfunction in those rifles

    they can however be modified with a return spring to prevent this. obviously this one wasn't.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2012
  5. TSAX

    TSAX USAF Vet

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    Wow, something like this would rattle many people, its normal, at least no one else was hurt






    :50cal:
     
  6. ColdSteelNail

    ColdSteelNail

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    Wow! Helluva story. Let us know if you find out how he is doing.
     
  7. norton

    norton

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    You may well be on to something. when I saw the rifle laying on the ground, I thought it looked rather ratty. I own an SKS myself. I got the impression that as a bring back, it may have never been fired since the 1950's.
     
  8. sputnik767

    sputnik767

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    This. But the free-floating pin design is not unique to the SKS. It is also present in the AK and the M16 IIRC. The reason why the SKS tends to get a bad rap is probably due to a lot of people shooting the mil-surp guns w/o cleaning the firing pin channel of all the cosmoline properly, as you stated. And if the pin gets stuck in the out position, it can become an unstoppable full-auto gun until the magazine is empty. It is similar to guns that fire from an open bolt position and have the pin always out, such as the real Uzi, but in that gun, the trigger actually holds back the bolt I believe. In the SKS, it simply drops the hammer.

    However, the design itself does not have a propensity to go full-auto, just if the pin gets stuck out.

    However, I still don't understand how the guy was shot. If he indeed got scared and tossed the gun away, that would have to be the absolute stupidest thing he could have done, and it's amazing that nobody else got hurt.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2012
  9. PawDog

    PawDog NRA Member

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    My son had an old Norc SKS that, after shooting and owning it for about a year, it went full auto on him too at the range.

    he quickly sold it to a friend who had it repaired.
     
  10. token5gtd

    token5gtd

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    I'd be willing to bet my last dime on my theory....

    Sad thing is if he'd been following the #1 rule: Keep muzzle pointed in safe direction, and known how to inspect/clean his rifle, it would have never happened.

    Chambering a round in a rifle like that without being "ready" just isn't smart.

    Feel sorry for the guy, just think it all kinda boils down to it being his own fault.

    EDIT: I have two Yugos that I've had for about 10 years. I keep em clean and they've never once malfunctioned between the two of them. They don't have a return spring retrofit, and were vietnam era mil-surp.

    Good way to make sure your channel is good and clean is to take the bolt out and shake it, longways of course.

    If you can hear the firing pin distinctly hitting metal to metal at each end, it's moving pretty freely (good thing).

    If it feels/sounds like the firing pin isn't moving as fast as your shaking the bolt, or is not firmly hitting the ends of the channel, time for a cleaning.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2012
  11. n2extrm

    n2extrm

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    This is exactly what I was thinking when I read the original post. It makes the most sense. I owned an sks never shot it though. I seem to remember some thing about firing pin protrusion as well. Maybe that was the mosin nagant? :dunno:

    Either way a stuck gummed up or similar firing pin makes the most sense.
     
  12. Hailstorm

    Hailstorm Boom Shacka

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    I can say that I had one do the full auto thing on me. I figured out that I was using to much grease in the wrong spot. For me, it only fired 3 rounds. Enough for me to go. Well that is not right.

    Took it apart right there and cleaned it. End of problem. Never did it again. I miss that gun.
     
  13. Blaster

    Blaster Hunc tu caveto

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    Bad things happen when you don't control a gun gone full auto. Whether or not it was designed to do so.

    A few years back a little kid was killed by the micro Uzi he was firing at a machine gun shoot in Westfield, MA.

    http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=6121915&page=1#.T5stcbNYuBI

    I was planning on going but got called into work. I am really glad I wasn't there to see that.
     
  14. ZekerMan

    ZekerMan ZekerMan

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    The very early Russian SKS had a spring loaded Firing Pin, a gent down in Texas installs a new FP and spring for about $50 so I had it done to the 2 I planned on keeping.
     
  15. Inyo Tim

    Inyo Tim Senior Moment

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    A little off topic, but was the SKS used by the Communists in the Korean war? I've read a lot about that war and have never heard it mentioned.
    I reloaded some 7.62x39 for a friend and used regular rifle primers. It would double at times. I switched to a harder military type primer and that cured it.
     
  16. NeverMore1701

    NeverMore1701 Fear no Evil Platinum Member

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    That sucks. Honestly though, it could have been a lot worse than a gut shot with weak 7.62x39.
     
  17. coondog22554

    coondog22554 Lifetime Member

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    Might have been Murrays

    http://www.murraysguns.com/sksown.htm

    You can send him your bolt or he will sell you the firing pin and spring and you can DIY.

    Money well spent.
     
  18. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

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    Yeah, sounds like a slam fire event. I read about this occuring back when I first got my SKS (that I later sold).
     
  19. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    A frozen firing pin is no doubt one way for an SKS to run away. But, I have seen them where the hammer will fall when the bolt is closed. There was one that doubled, then tripled and then ran away. The reason the shooter kept shooting it was because it cycled so fast that he didn't know it was doubling until it ram away for a full mag dump. Those things double so fast that you need to keep track of the rounds in the mag to be aware of it. 10 rounds, five trigger pulls, empty mag...

    What was happening was the sear or something else was slipping when the bolt closed. We carefully chambered one round and bumped the butt stock and the round went off. We did the same with the gun empty and you could hear the hammer fall.

    It is my opinion, and others may disagree, that the SKS is not safe when chambered unless it is facing down range. After what I have seen, I would never close the bolt on a live round unless I had the gun shouldered and on target.
     
  20. Ferdinandd

    Ferdinandd

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    About 15 years ago, I witnessed a woman shot through back to front at a range in Memphis. Rattled me considerably. Kinda made me think about avoiding the place, which I did.