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Man Pulls Gun Outside Holiday Market to Stop Knife-Wielding Man

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by TBO, Mar 9, 2012.

  1. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM

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  2. EAJuggalo

    EAJuggalo

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  3. Gunnut 45/454

    Gunnut 45/454

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    Good job! He probably saved a few lives including the knife weilders! I might not have been so tolerant as to ask/demand he drop the knife 7 times! I'm a three strikes your out type of guy!:whistling:
     
  4. Patchman

    Patchman Florist

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    OK, let me see if I got this right.

    On Monday, David Harold Shuten, 43, of Madison Heights, was trying to break the driver’s side window of a vehicle occupied by a 49-year-old man. A couple with an infant yelled at him to stop.

    So when the driver of the vehicle was able to escape without injury, Shuten turned his attention on the couple and child.

    As Shuten approached the couple, another customer in the parking lot who has a permit to carry a concealed weapon pulled out his firearm and ordered Shuten to drop the knife. After several commands to drop his weapon, Shuten complied.

    OK, my conclusion is that the customer with the gun, and who took action, is NOT a GT poster. :rofl: Kudos to him.

    And the couple with the baby were, apparently, unarmed. But they still took action. Definitely not GT posters. :rofl: Kudos to them as well.
     
  5. Brian Lee

    Brian Lee Drop those nuts

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    When it's a couple with a baby I'd only give him one warning and that's it. Not every one deserves three strikes.
     
  6. BGDaddy

    BGDaddy Member

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    Bunch of bad ***** internet Rambos...

    I would have given him every opportunity I could have to come to his senses - right up until he started to get too close to the people with the baby.

    Guess the rest of you have an extra $50k floating around to pay that defense attorney
     
  7. wprebeck

    wprebeck Got quacks?

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    Well, if you're too scared to help, just say so.
     
  8. CLoft239

    CLoft239 I Like Turtles

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    How close is too close? The average person can cover ground real fast if they decide to break out into a sprint.



    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
     
  9. jbailey8

    jbailey8

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    Yeah, I think I would give a guy with a knife more than a few chances.
     
  10. Veedubklown

    Veedubklown

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    +1
    :rofl::rofl:

    You know what doesn't get me involved with the police? Some crazy dude stabbing a man woman and child. However, I would have trouble sleeping with myself if I stood by and did nothing. I would give the dude ample chance to drop his weapon, because killing someone is a last resort. Ideally before he makes someone dead first.

    If he was charging, that's a different scenario, but as many chances as he got, he may have just been waving it around. :dunno: wasn't there.
     
  11. Misty02

    Misty02

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    I’m all for happy endings. :)

    I also wonder, did the couple with the baby think things through before intervention and had a plan to address the man’s aggression once it turned to them because they interfered?

    .
     
  12. BK63

    BK63

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    If you have ever seen a knife self defense video, and pics of somebody that has really been cut up, you would never under estimate the seriousness of somebody with a knife. I think the guy did a good job.
     
  13. Wishoot

    Wishoot

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    Bravo!

    Sounds like this CCW holder managed the situation perfectly. Kudos for not escalating this to the point of deadly force.
     
  14. Wasatch

    Wasatch back again

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    Not to dogpile on you, cuz, but you're the one with the avatar that appears to be you pointing your pistol at all of us. Who's the BAMF Internet Rambo? :tongueout:
     
  15. voomie

    voomie

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    No one died and the ccw hold did not go to jail so I say it was handled perfectly.
     
  16. BGDaddy

    BGDaddy Member

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    :goodpost:
     
  17. Louisville Glocker

    Louisville Glocker Urban Redneck

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    Wow. Really well done as far as I can tell from the info there.

    I like that the civilian ordered the man to drop the knife. The CCW carrier has every right to do that (use deadly force or the threat of deadly force -KY, at least in my state) in that situation. Yes, repeat order if it is ignored. There is no magic number of times to repeat order. Every situation is obviously different. Use best judgement.

    Keep in mind that knives are deadly weapons. They can kill you just as quickly as a bullet. Members of my immediate family were present during a knife attack in downtown Chicago, and it got ugly and bloody very quickly. The attacker was eventually apprehended only by physical force by my brother and others. One person was seriously disfigured, but lived. Take knives seriously!
     
  18. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

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    I agree with this approach 100%. However, the devil is in the details, as next post points out.
    True enough.
    The other issue is if the guy decides to move towards the couple, do you lose a clear background, or a clear foreground? Would you still have a clear shot? If not, do you give him a chance to figure that out and attack them, or do you shoot, maybe without even a warning? Something to think about.

    Granted, that's a hell of a lot of thinking to be doing in a fast moving situation, not sure I'd expect anyone to be thinking that far ahead. But something to consider if it ever happens to you. Hindsight in someone else's situation can be your foresight.
    I usually agree with you, but not necessarily this time. Situation worked out. Was the guy in the parking lot lucky, or did he really have it covered? Don't know, wasn't there. Seems like he did fine. I don't think you can say he was too scared to help, he intervened and handled it. And anyone agreeing with his approach is about the same, in my book, seems to me. Scared to help would be walking away and not getting involved.

    There's a point you can shoot, but don't have to. Sounds like this case, IMO, unless the guy was lucky rather than correctly assessing the situation and reacting appropriately.

    Then there's a point you really do have to shoot. Not shooting in that second case would be a case of too scared to help. But stepping up, pulling the gun, getting involved, makes you a potential target for the knife wielder to attack, so I say definitely NOT too scared to act.

    There's probably a whole lot of gray in between those two points too, depending on the situation, circumstances.

    Saw your thread about your off duty gig getting robbed twice recently, keep your head on a swivel in there. Sounds like they know your schedule and are trying to avoid you. But it could just be dumb luck on their part, trying to pick a time the store is less busy. Next time they could stumble onto you, or even target you. Are you in uniform and easily identified, or plainclothes for this? Either way, be careful, stay safe....

    The other interesting thing is this is Royal Oak, I take bass lessons basically across the street from that Holiday Market, and its definitely the perfect postcard of a "safe" suburban area. I spend lots of time, late at night at my wife's rental in Detroit, expecting trouble, finding none. Here something goes down like this at the last place you'd expect. Just goes to show you you should never let your guard down, there's no "safe" areas.

    Randy
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2012
  19. NEOH212

    NEOH212 Diesel Girl

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    My gun is to protect me. Not anyone else. Whatever happens that doesn't happen to me isn't my problem and I'm not going to make it so.

    If we didn't have a society and legal system that was so eager to hang the good guy, perhaps I would have a different opinion. I'm not going to spend 50K or 50 years for defending someone else. Hell, the police aren't even obligated to protect you so why in the hell should I?

    I guess the family should have been armed and taken their personal protection more seriously. Perhaps they will think twice before they open their mouth next time. :whistling:
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2012
  20. Misty02

    Misty02

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    :supergrin: I thought it, just wasn't in the mood to post it as clearly as you did and deal with the written lashes that would have likely followed.

    The presence of the baby would have been a deal breaker for me to be able to stay out of it and call 911 (be a good witness and all that other good stuff); children and the very elderly or frail are a kink in my armor. Absent the child, my thoughts would mirror yours to the T!

    .