Making 9mm Bullets Go Fast: 38 Super or What?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by ZekesLead, Sep 2, 2020.

  1. ZekesLead

    ZekesLead

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    I'm building a 1911/2011 or similar soon to compliment my Glocks. My goal is to get the 65gr Xtreme Defender .355in bullet over 2200fps from a 4.25in barrel (or close to that length). I need to pick a cartridge to do that with. So far from reloading for my own Glocks, getting info online, and playing around with Quickload, it seems like I can pick one of the following (following loads are max or beyond book max, do not load these unless you work up, check pressure, etc):

    1. 9x25 Dillon. Current load is 18gr VV 3n38 at 1.273in COAL. From a 4.5in barrel it yields 2350fps chrono'd. To get this to feed properly in other platforms COAL would need to be reduced to 1.25in.

    2. 357 Sig. A 14gr Alliant Power Pistol load in 5in barrel produces 2300fps at 1.18in COAL, chrono'd. Supposedly very hard to get it to feed reliably in the 1911 or 2011.

    3. 9x23win. No load data, but quickload thinks it would yield around 2200fps from a 4.25in barrel with 12.3gr of Alliant Power Pistol. This feeds very well as long as they are limited to 1.25in COAL or less.

    4. 38 Super & Super Comp & similar. No load data, but quickload thinks it be almost identical to 9x23win (which makes sense) when loaded to similar pressures (which supposedly a fully supported chamber will handle just fine).

    5. 9mm Major in Shel Shock cases. Loaded long with Alliant Power Pistol they are just shy of the 2200fps goal, but close enough that it may be achievable.

    I'm set up to load 9x25, 357 Sig, and 9mm already, but I don't mind adding 9x23 or 38 Super Comp to the collection.

    So the question is: if you wanted to get a 65gr bullet going 2200fps+ out of a 4.25-4.5in barrelled 1911/2011, which cartridge would you choose to do it and why?
     
  2. FoodBag

    FoodBag Previously nutsnax

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    357 sig:

    -The brass is built to handle the higher pressures
    -the brass is pretty readily available once-fired and not terribly priced if you MUST have 357 sig brass
    -40 s&w can be easily formed for this and does just as well (and is a lot cheaper)
    -if you shoot it out of a carbine, that projectile will likely get up to rifle velocities as 357 sig gets a nice ~400-600 fps boost out of a carbine
    -more reliable feeding because bottleneck
    -Factory ammo is readily available albeit a bit pricey
    -plentiful gun selection out there from a variety of manufacturers
    -aftermarket barrels readily available

    Cons to this are neck tension issues, potential setback etc. You likely know all of this. Cost of factory ammo can be pretty high... 40 cent and higher. I guess it comes down to cartridge versatility and support of the cartridge from manufacturers and the community. 357 sig is the best.

    Edit: just saw you said only ~4.5" barrels. I still say 357 sig even if you dont plan to get a carbine with it. Though ill bet a carbine would make that projectile absolutely scream.....
     

  3. Glolt20-91

    Glolt20-91

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  4. fredj338

    fredj338

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    I would go 357sig for ease of reloading & brass. Plus it will feed great in a 2011. I have a bbl for my Delta & it runs great. I am not sure I want to play with specialty bullets at that vel but you can certainly run 115gr @ 1500fps+ without bending anything.
     
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  5. Gokyo

    Gokyo

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    Frankly I wouldn't

    I worry that a 1911 is not up to the task of really high pressure loads.

    1911 were designed for the low pressure of a 45 ACP.

    1911 have been made to handle 10mm and other higher pressure loads but it seems miss matched to me.

    There is nothin magic about Glocks but they do seems to handle 10mm and even 9x25 fairly well.
     
  6. ZekesLead

    ZekesLead

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    I actually will be building a gun for this soon (or probably for the 9mm Super version from Tromix) but that will be a 6in+ barrel probably. Different gun different build.

    Thanks for letting me know about your experience with the 1911 and by extension the 2011 in 357 SIG. I've read a ton of horror stories about getting the 1911 and especially 2011 to feed 357 SIG, here is an example thread where even STI couldn't get their own pistol working. Something to do with the feed angle and mags. Supposedly it can be "made to work" but you need the know how. Anyone else who wants to chime in on this it would be greatly appreciated, as I too think that .357 SIG is probably the best of the bunch IF it can feed and function correctly (which is very much in question).

    I'm really not sure where this came from, but the 1911/2011 have more locking lug surface and more ways to slow the slide than just about any other common semi-auto out there. They can usually handle things like the .460 Rowland and .40 Super (not to mention the original 9x25 Dillon) better than most others, even without a comp in some cases. Same is true for the 9x23W and 9mm Major, both of which have PSI in the 50K range in many cases and they were both built for the 1911/2011 platforms. As long as they are modern and built properly, I don't see any reason why they aren't in the best position to handle high pressure rounds. But I am open to hearing if this is not correct for some reason. I do agree that Glocks tend to do well with 10mm/9x25 too, which is why I own some of them already.
     
  7. Gokyo

    Gokyo

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    I am just not a fan of the locking surfaces on a 1911. This is not based on any empirical evidence.
     
  8. sig357fan

    sig357fan

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    if memory service me correctly there was a member on GT that was using a Glock 20 with an aftermarket barrel in 357 Sig that he had long throated to increase COL which allowed him to "hot rod" the 357 Sig cartridge, if I remember correctly, he was getting some pretty spectacular velocities using only the AM barrel and a heavy RSA.
     
  9. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Maybe because the Delta is a 10 so the mags are not an issue? So the 2011 could be problematic, but I would think any 10mm would work great with 357sig bbl.
     
  10. noylj

    noylj

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    Get a round about the same length as a .45 Auto/.38 Super. Nothing from the .40 S&W length.
    Personally, I would go with the 9x23 Win or the 9x25 Dillon.
    .357 Sig is 40,000 psi vs 35,000 for 9x19. Very short neck and some problems reloading. Not worth it.
     
  11. 9x45

    9x45 Millennium Member

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    9x25 Dillon for maximum velocity with light bullets.
     
  12. ZekesLead

    ZekesLead

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    For the 2011 I will say that 9x23win or .38 Super Comp loaded to 9x23 win pressure in a fully support chamber is appealing due to capacity and feeding. Does anyone have any experience loading these lighter shorter bullets in them?

    As for 9x25 Dillon, I love it myself. Having trouble getting the 65gr Xterme Defender to cycle at <1.27in COAL though, something to do with the flutes going below the case mouth. For whatever reason the 90grs (which do the same thing) I can get to feed at 1.24in COAL.
     
  13. 9x23w

    9x23w

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    For the ultimate performance you will need either the 38 Casull or the 9mm Super. I have seen almost no info on the Casull, but the 9mm Super is just a 40 Super (for which brass is available) necked to 9mm. I actually have a chamber print, but I don't know anyone who will chamber a barrel for it.