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Mag capacity and CIVILIAN shootings (not Law Enforcement)

8228 Views 281 Replies 84 Participants Last post by  fredj338
Posted this in response to another question on related topic. . . but thought I'd share it as it's own info on the Carry board.


A guy did a statistical analysis of more than a thousand CIVILIAN shootings, and found that:

75% of all civilian shootings are resolved with 5 rounds or less
95% of civilian shootings are resolved with 8 rounds or less

With 10+1 in your gun, the chances you'll need more ammo to finish the fight are near zero.

Also, the Active Self Protection guy has stated that out of however many hundreds or thousands of shooting videos he's seen, he's NEVER ONCE seen anybody have to reload and keep fighting. Any reloads always happened after the fight wound up being over.
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It doesn't matter in the least if I'm being shot at. There are no legal limits on the amount of ammunition a person, or a cop can carry.
While I agree with you, there is one exception I know of......Washington D.C. Mag capacity limit there is 10 rounds. But you can't carry more than 20 rounds total. So if you +1 in your gun, your spare can only have 9 rounds.
 

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While I agree with you, there is one exception I know of......Washington D.C. Mag capacity limit there is 10 rounds. But you can't carry more than 20 rounds total. So if you +1 in your gun, your spare can only have 9 rounds.
Correct. You must remain within the capacity limits of whatever the law dictates in the state you're in. It has nothing whatsoever to do with, "being a cop".
 

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Keep in mind that having a large cap or spare mag may be used against you in a court of law.
Only if you're in one of the communist states that has a limit on magazine capacity or total rounds carried on your person. In Michigan there is no limit on either, nor is there a limit on how many guns you can carry.
 
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Just a question. LEOSA makes a cop immune from ammo possession so why would that apply to the amount of ammo the cop has on him. Magazine capacity is different than a limit on the amount of ammo. So if I took a revolver to DC with a box of 25 rounds would LEOSA cover me?
 

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Care to provide some examples?
I doubt it will change your mind. The prosecution will use everything than can to convict you. An example I know of, a person pulled his gun after being attacked from behind and knocked to the ground. The assailant stood there as the handicapped person tried to stand. This person does not like to cuss and the assalient was swearing up and down. This was used against the gun owner in court.
 

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Pepper spray? extra light? My phone has a light. My belt will work as a TQ. How are you gonna dress casual with a Batman utility belt?
Your belt is less effective than direct pressure. There is a reason we teach in TCCC, TECC, and EMS classes to double up tourniquets, especially for leg injuries. Many cases of people bleeding out with a belt used as a tourniquet.
 

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You are confusing things. What is legal and what a prosecutor will use against you are often in opposition to each other. These are facts.
Prosecutors have to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury. And that is only after you've been in front of a grand jury, and they make the decision to charge you. And they won't do that unless they feel there's enough evidence to prove guilt. That's a lot of what it's..... That's not confusing. That's the LAW.
 

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Prosecutors have to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury. And that is only after you've been in front of a grand jury, and they make the decision to charge you. And they won't do that unless they feel there's enough evidence to prove guilt. That's a lot of what it's.
Or if they can fabricate a good enough story and evidence.
 

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I doubt it will change your mind. The prosecution will use everything than can to convict you. An example I know of, a person pulled his gun after being attacked from behind and knocked to the ground. The assailant stood there as the handicapped person tried to stand. This person does not like to cuss and the assalient was swearing up and down. This was used against the gun owner in court.
So, no examples?
 

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Your belt is less effective than direct pressure. There is a reason we teach in TCCC, TECC, and EMS classes to double up tourniquets, especially for leg injuries. Many cases of people bleeding out with a belt used as a tourniquet.
First of all you took my comment out of context. It was mentioned as a field expedient tool. To add to the context I used to do wilderness SAR as member of a team of federal agents and was a NREMT, incidentally my cert expired in 1999. My last EMT training tq's were still forbidden so forgive me for being ignorant of the latest protocols. I was a cop, not a medic by trade.

What did they teach you about the golden hour? We were never even notified within an hour, then it took another hour to assemble the team and start in the direction of the call.

I don't carry a CAT on me person 24/7 but I do carry one at work.
 

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Who is "they"?
Prosecutors and leos.
So, no examples?
I have given an example of what prosecutors do. If possible use your imagination as to what they will do to you in court.
For additional information you can research PaulCraig Roberts.org.
However, my guess is that you will continue to play mall ninja. Good luck.
 

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First of all you took my comment out of context. It was mentioned as a field expedient tool. To add to the context I used to do wilderness SAR as member of a team of federal agents and was a NREMT, incidentally my cert expired in 1999. My last EMT training tq's were still forbidden so forgive me for being ignorant of the latest protocols. I was a cop, not a medic by trade.

What did they teach you about the golden hour? We were never even notified within an hour, then it took another hour to assemble the team and start in the direction of the call.

I don't carry a CAT on me person 24/7 but I do carry one at work.
This would be a very long post if I don’t shorten some things up.

1994 in EMT class and 1996 at Ft Sam Combat medic course tourniquets were only a field expedient type like your belt. On the civilian side they were taboo. Oh, and the golden hour was rule of the land.

2002 - Why are soldiers still extanguinating on the battle field like they did in Vietnam?

2003 - problem identified and EVERY person deployed to AO is issued CAT tourniquets, no more teaching of field expedient tourniquets, and all Medics begin training on Tactical Combat Causality Care prior to deployment. We learned from the special operations community to what actually worked in combat.

2005 - Golden hour no longer taught and replaced with golden period and an emphasis on training to stop bleeding as the leading cause of preventable death out of hospital, just like it is in combat. This came with a lot of things like permissive hypotension on trauma patients and more focus on MAP and perfusion guided care.

2010 - Tactical Emergency Casualty Care becomes a class. Same as TCCC without treatment under direct fire. It focused on the use of CAT tourniquets, would packing, and wound sealing as the primary means of preventing death. ETA this was when tourniquets fell into “favor” on the civilian side.

It is next to impossible to get a normal belt tight enough to actually stop bleeding. The bleeding it will stop is not arterial in nature. There are multiple peer reviewed studies about this. I carry 4 CAT tourniquets impregnated combat gauze and two chest seals in a pouch on my vest and always have an IFAK with the same in the car that I take to the range, I don’t carry on me on normal days. Current expert recommendations are high on the limb and multiple tourniquets may be needed to stop arterial bleeding.

I can go on a very long tirade about tourniquets and the brand and type. The American College of Trauma Surgeons is well published on this and on acceptable brands of tourniquets for use.

This is my life, out of hospital emergency medicine is what I do and what I have dedicated over 25 years of my life to. I do not want to hijack this or any other thread and any PM questions will be answered.
 

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This would be a very long post if I don’t shorten some things up.

1994 in EMT class and 1996 at Ft Sam Combat medic course tourniquets were only a field expedient type like your belt. On the civilian side they were taboo. Oh, and the golden hour was rule of the land.

2002 - Why are soldiers still extanguinating on the battle field like they did in Vietnam?

2003 - problem identified and EVERY person deployed to AO is issued CAT tourniquets, no more teaching of field expedient tourniquets, and all Medics begin training on Tactical Combat Causality Care prior to deployment. We learned from the special operations community to what actually worked in combat.

2005 - Golden hour no longer taught and replaced with golden period and an emphasis on training to stop bleeding as the leading cause of preventable death out of hospital, just like it is in combat. This came with a lot of things like permissive hypotension on trauma patients and more focus on MAP and perfusion guided care.

2010 - Tactical Emergency Casualty Care becomes a class. Same as TCCC without treatment under direct fire. It focused on the use of CAT tourniquets, would packing, and wound sealing as the primary means of preventing death. ETA this was when tourniquets fell into “favor” on the civilian side.

It is next to impossible to get a normal belt tight enough to actually stop bleeding. The bleeding it will stop is not arterial in nature. There are multiple peer reviewed studies about this. I carry 4 CAT tourniquets impregnated combat gauze and two chest seals in a pouch on my vest and always have an IFAK with the same in the car that I take to the range, I don’t carry on me on normal days. Current expert recommendations are high on the limb and multiple tourniquets may be needed to stop arterial bleeding.

I can go on a very long tirade about tourniquets and the brand and type. The American College of Trauma Surgeons is well published on this and on acceptable brands of tourniquets for use.

This is my life, out of hospital emergency medicine is what I do and what I have dedicated over 25 years of my life to. I do not want to hijack this or any other thread and any PM questions will be answered.
Keep preaching. Make a new thread . I don’t know enough on this stuff. My info is way out of date
 

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Posted this in response to another question on related topic. . . but thought I'd share it as it's own info on the Carry board.


A guy did a statistical analysis of more than a thousand CIVILIAN shootings, and found that:

75% of all civilian shootings are resolved with 5 rounds or less
95% of civilian shootings are resolved with 8 rounds or less

With 10+1 in your gun, the chances you'll need more ammo to finish the fight are near zero.

Also, the Active Self Protection guy has stated that out of however many hundreds or thousands of shooting videos he's seen, he's NEVER ONCE seen anybody have to reload and keep fighting. Any reloads always happened after the fight wound up being over.
Did you ever think that 75% of people carry a gun that holds 5 rounds or less and 95% of people carry a gun that holds 8 rounds or less?? If EVERYONE carried a gun that held 20 rounds, the statistics would say that 100% of shootings are resolved in 20 rounds or less.
 

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Posted this in response to another question on related topic. . . but thought I'd share it as it's own info on the Carry board.


A guy did a statistical analysis of more than a thousand CIVILIAN shootings, and found that:

75% of all civilian shootings are resolved with 5 rounds or less
95% of civilian shootings are resolved with 8 rounds or less

With 10+1 in your gun, the chances you'll need more ammo to finish the fight are near zero.

Also, the Active Self Protection guy has stated that out of however many hundreds or thousands of shooting videos he's seen, he's NEVER ONCE seen anybody have to reload and keep fighting. Any reloads always happened after the fight wound up being over.
The magazine is the weakest link in a semi-auto pistol. Many things could happen, you could accidently dump it, or the base plate breaks, who knows. Better off carrying a spare or two.

Corey
 
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