Mag capacity and CIVILIAN shootings (not Law Enforcement)
Posted this in response to another question on related topic. . . but thought I'd share it as it's own info on the Carry board.
A guy did a statistical analysis of more than a thousand CIVILIAN shootings, and found that:
75% of all civilian shootings are resolved with 5 rounds or less
95% of civilian shootings are resolved with 8 rounds or less
With 10+1 in your gun, the chances you'll need more ammo to finish the fight are near zero.
Also, the Active Self Protection guy has stated that out of however many hundreds or thousands of shooting videos he's seen, he's NEVER ONCE seen anybody have to reload and keep fighting. Any reloads always happened after the fight wound up being over.
A guy did a statistical analysis of more than a thousand CIVILIAN shootings, and found that:
75% of all civilian shootings are resolved with 5 rounds or less
95% of civilian shootings are resolved with 8 rounds or less
With 10+1 in your gun, the chances you'll need more ammo to finish the fight are near zero.
Also, the Active Self Protection guy has stated that out of however many hundreds or thousands of shooting videos he's seen, he's NEVER ONCE seen anybody have to reload and keep fighting. Any reloads always happened after the fight wound up being over.
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There are more reasons to carry spare mags than just running out of ammo. Accidentally dropping the mag in your gun or have it malfunction is also a possibility. I think about that more than ammo capacity, so I am willing to carry a 6 round gun and 1 spare, but if I have a 10 or 15 round gun, I'll still carry a spare.
I believe it those stats. There is a semi prominent instructor I had say the same thing and offered up something like a year's worth of free training to anyone who could provide evidence of a civilian gunfight where a reload occured and made a difference to the outcome. As far as I know he's still waiting for anyone to collect on that.
I will still carry a reload anyway though. It's cheap insurance with really no extra work to edc.
This does however bring in to question why anyone would waste extensive time working on fast reloads for any real world purpose. I think most care for gaming reasons but I'm sure somebody out there spends hours in front of a mirror trying to drop half a second off their reload times with thoughts of it maybe winning their gunfight someday. Be competent at reloading, but our time is probably better served practicing other aspects if the end goal isn't drill times and gun games.
I will still carry a reload anyway though. It's cheap insurance with really no extra work to edc.
This does however bring in to question why anyone would waste extensive time working on fast reloads for any real world purpose. I think most care for gaming reasons but I'm sure somebody out there spends hours in front of a mirror trying to drop half a second off their reload times with thoughts of it maybe winning their gunfight someday. Be competent at reloading, but our time is probably better served practicing other aspects if the end goal isn't drill times and gun games.
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I have never carried a spare mag - I would rather (and do actually) just carry my BUG which is a P3AT.
The P3AT - in my pocket - no holster but empty chamber seems like a better solution than a spare mag.
That gives me ten + one 9MM 147 grain HST + six 380 auto 90 grain Black Hills JHP.
We all have to decide what we want and what we don't want - so I don't think there is a "right" answer.
The P3AT - in my pocket - no holster but empty chamber seems like a better solution than a spare mag.
That gives me ten + one 9MM 147 grain HST + six 380 auto 90 grain Black Hills JHP.
We all have to decide what we want and what we don't want - so I don't think there is a "right" answer.
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Not "near zero" but 5% over all. How do you know which one you are gonna be in? I will still carry a reload, whether it is for when I think the fight is over or to stay in the fight. It is all well and good, but it takes little effort to carry a reload.
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There's other reasons to carry a spare magazine besides more available rounds.
Magazine related malfunction (as example - possible cause for failure to feed) can be rectified by replacing the suspect magazine with your spare magazine.
ETA - didn't see @Bren post to after I posted. Sorry for the repeat.
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5% at 8 rounds. Near zero with 10+1.
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Probability of needing more than 10 are low.
But, the stakes are high.
Furthermore, the "cost" or "burden" of carrying an extra mag are so low as to be negligible. There is no "downside" to carrying an extra mag.
That raises the question: Why NOT carry an extra mag? Because of statistics??? Really???
But, the stakes are high.
Furthermore, the "cost" or "burden" of carrying an extra mag are so low as to be negligible. There is no "downside" to carrying an extra mag.
That raises the question: Why NOT carry an extra mag? Because of statistics??? Really???
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I have carried semi-autos with 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 15, and 17 round mag capacities over the last 35+ years. I have always carried with one extra spare mag for each of the above weapon platforms. Not because of a perceived need for more ammo, but for the fact that the magazine is the weak link in the platform. They break, they fail, etc...
Carrying the spare mag is not the hard part of the equation after all.
Carrying the spare mag is not the hard part of the equation after all.
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"Lack of High Capacity" is often the Hobgoblin that bedevils a lot of folks when it comes to lawfully carrying a firearm as a dedicated defensive weapon.
Imagine if the same folks invested as much concern in the state of their knowledge (of the laws), skillset, and reasonable firearms maintenance.
Imagine if the same folks invested as much concern in the state of their knowledge (of the laws), skillset, and reasonable firearms maintenance.
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The only thing I can think of is the spare magazine competes for real estate with the smart phone, pepper spray, hand held flashlight, and these days the med kit/TQ. Especially if one needs to dress business casual to blend in with their environment.
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I carry 1 spare in my Glock 43X normally
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There is not data to support that. You are just extrapolating the numbers. Basically the same number of people claim to have been abducted by aliens as have used a gun for self defense. So if what you carry is based on the odds, why are you even carrying?
Data Visualization | Defensive Gun Uses in the U.S. | The Heritage Foundation
According to almost every major study on the issue, Americans use their firearms defensively between 500,000 and 3 million times each year. From @HeritageDataViz
datavisualizations.heritage.org
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Personally I carry the Sabre canister in my weak side pocket. I've actually had to use it to stop an aggressive dog that was charging my dog and me. I do not think the pistol would have been a wise choice given the totality of the circumstances if I had not had it.
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Im on and off carrying mine. I always take it when I walk/jog/bike and sometimes have it at other times...most of the time for instance if im just going to the grocery store,get some coffee or what ever i dont have it but lets say im going fishing/hiking/to the park then i take it...
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I often reflect that there are seemingly more non-LE CCW folks who feel they must carry more gear on their person on a daily basis than I did in my plainclothes assignment.
Nowadays I rather enjoy being able to choose to only carry a small handheld light, a couple pocket knives, a retirement weapon and a spare mag or speedstrip/loader. On days/nights where I plan a trip to my cigar club, I add a cigar cutter and/or punch.
FWIW, I stopped carrying OC when I retired and was no longer finding myself have to frequently spray someone's dog(s) they didn't prevent from attacking me at some scene.
Nowadays I rather enjoy being able to choose to only carry a small handheld light, a couple pocket knives, a retirement weapon and a spare mag or speedstrip/loader. On days/nights where I plan a trip to my cigar club, I add a cigar cutter and/or punch.
FWIW, I stopped carrying OC when I retired and was no longer finding myself have to frequently spray someone's dog(s) they didn't prevent from attacking me at some scene.
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Pepper spray? extra light? My phone has a light. My belt will work as a TQ. How are you gonna dress casual with a Batman utility belt?
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And? See you are also saying 5% DO NEED MORE THAN 8 rounds.
You just might be one of those 5%.
It is better to have and not need than need and not have.
Kind of like the AR-15 for hunting/self defense.
You can have 30 shots in the gun and just fire one to kill a deer, or 2-5 to kill a few hogs before they run off, and 30 shots in case there is a home invasion!
Nice to have those extra rounds!
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