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Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by jojo_G19, Feb 20, 2006.
whats the difference??
I'm not sure what you mean by "baby M16," but I'll guess you refer to the CAR-15 (formerly XM177 in the Vietnam era). Essentially the M4 is a carbine version of the M16A2 (and M16A4 now). The XM177/CAR-15 was the carbine version of the M16A1.
From what I can remember right now:
Barrel Length: M4 = 14.5"; CAR-15 = 11.5" (varies)
Rifling Twist: M4 = 1 in 7"; CAR-15 = 1 in 12"
Other differences ...
The M4 has a different barrel profile and can mount the M204 grenade launcher. The M4 telescoping stock is also different (the butt is taller, more positions), so it allows more freedom in mounting the weapon. The fixed carry handle version (original M4) uses an A2-type sight that is adjustable for elevation. The rear sight on the CAR-15 was only adjustable for windage.
Joseph, you used M4 during the KY. 3 Guns last year? By the way, I'm planning to try Heavy Metal category this season. what day you schedule to shoot @ IN. Sectional Championship?
Cousin Rhino!!!!!!! long time no hear!!!!! how're ya???
PH version of the 'baby' M16 is actually either a Colt (very hard to find) or Elisco 14.5-inch long barrel with the older 1/12 twist. Barrel is 'pencil' profile or small in diameter (5/8 inch or .625"). Barrel heats up easily. Original buttstock is retractable 2-pos or 4-pos, either aluminum or fibrite/plastic. Barrel is optimize for our GI-surplus WCC/LC M193 or Armcor/BMP/RPA 55grain heads. Some 'babies' are actually 'putol' from long M16s. If no bushing or welds on the barrel, at most it is 13.5". Depending on who made the cut, accuracy is still good.
M4 is the newer version. Also 14.5" but with heavier weight and barrel profile. Military twist (Colt-usually) is 1/7. 1/9 for our available Wilson or Bushmaster. Larger diameter at 3/4 (.75)inch barrel. Designed handle the newer 'Green Tip' 62-grains ammo. This ammo is quite expensive locally (and if you can find it). The 1/7 twist is further designed to handle the heavier 77gr ammo.
The Elisco carbine I saw from my friend had a 16" non-chrome barrel. A lot less noisy and more accurate than the carbines with 14.5." Colts generally have 14.5" chrome-lined barrels.
If you cut the 20" barrel of the M16 by the gas port, it will produce a 14.5" barrel. Crowning is the key to accuracy. If the gunsmith knows how to crown a barrel, the product is a very accurate carbine. But if the gunsmith doesn't know what he's doing, the shots will never group.
I had a 13.5" barrel and I swapped it for a 20" Colt barrel. The carbine barrel just looks better than the 20" barrel, but try firing it without hearing protection, to simulate real-life situations. It will surely give you headaches.
Another reason why I swapped my 13.5" barrel for a 20" was that the 5.56mm is velocity-dependent to perform well(tumble, fragment, etc.). I'm referring to barrels with 1 in 12" twist.
Will the M16A2/ M4 cycle reliably with Plain Jane ball M193?
all the time...safe ito.
As Paltiq said, yes. The M4's barrel twist was designed to stabilize a variety of bullet weights (if I'm not mistaken, the heavier, the longer). Colt has a 1:7" twist while Bushmaster has a 1:9 twist.
Some still like the M193. It may have poor penetration characteristics than the M855, but once it hits the flesh with the desired velocity, the results are ugly. In my previous post months ago, I've seen a soldier shot obviously by an M16 in the left buttocks. This happened in the late '80s. The bullet travelled all the way down to his leg and exited the heel of his foot. He lost a lot of leg muscles after the operation.
This site explains it all.
223 / 556 Ammo Oracle / FAQ
The Green-Tip NATO standard 62gr M855 have been a mediocre performance in Afganistan and Iraq, especially for the short-barrelled CQB-oriented SOCOM forces. This is because M16 gets its lethality when the bullet fragments at certain minimum speed. M855 was design to have "steel insert", more suited for the Cold War where mass troop formation and inside personnel carriers and has less velocity vs the 55gr M193--our beloved WCC . Note that Israel Defense Force is still using the M193 heavily.
The 1/9 is thought to be optimum up to 68grains, while 1/7 is optimum up to 78grains. The SOCOM experimented with using the heavy 77grainer Mk262 to provide more punch for their 11.5/10.5 barreled M4/M16s. Results have been relatively encouraging.
Sort of an M4 ... it was a Bushmaster Superlight Carbine. Instead of the M4 profile barrel, it's got a really thin 16 inch barrel. It also has a stubby "entry" stock instead of collapsible (I got it during the ban). It weighs less than six pounds! It's not an ideal blaster for 3-Gun, but it's primary use is more "practical" concerns where less weight and shorter are better (it's my truck gun).
A applaud your choice to shoot heavy metal! If I ever get a .30 caliber battle rifle, I intend to do the same thing. I may actually get a CETME if I can find one for about $300 again (that was the going price last year around here).
I'm shooting on Sunday morning at the Indiana match, but I'll probably be hanging around the range on Saturday to visit and see how things are going. I'm not doing the scores this year, so I have the freedom to do what I want when I want!
I am fine, Cousin EC! How are you?
So have you made da moves on J. Go? ;3
Heh! I've tried, but her dad says I may not marry her! ;f
I may have to try harder soon. I heard she got her hair cut and I want to see ... I'll bet she's exceptionally cute and sassy in shot hair. ;3
Thats ok, living in is acceptable,who said anything about getting hitched? hehehe ;f
I like the way you think!
im still a big fan of the m16a2 and im planning to re-acquire another one. great rifle! where can i buy one with papers? pm me.