Lost Tapes: Pearl Harbor (Smithsonian Channel)

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Jade Falcon, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. Jade Falcon

    Jade Falcon WTF EREN?!

    Messages:
    11,406
    Likes Received:
    9,545
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA.
    If you have 50 minutes to watch this, you should. I am currently 10 minutes into this:



    It looks like we had an opportunity in November of 1941 to make peace with Japan. In hindsight, should we have done so? Could we have allied ourselves with Japan against Nazi aggression?

    It breaks my heart knowing that there was an opportunity at peace, but it didn't happen.

    Discuss.
     
    Jack_Pine and Ramjet38 like this.
  2. janice6

    janice6

    Messages:
    45,283
    Likes Received:
    56,787
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Location:
    minnesota
    Japan was already waging war with the far East countries, it was ongoing and waged mercilessly against other countries citizens. We could not condone this by ignoring it, supplying critical war materials to the Japanese, and encouraging empire building by the Japanese.

    Capitulation is never peace. We have the same thing happening now with the ME. "Do as we (ME) say and we may not perform terrorist acts against you".

    Tokyo told us (the USA) what to do, with the possibility that they would not attack US interests. They had little credibility in their favor.

    Peace at all costs is not peace at all.
     

  3. CAcop

    CAcop

    Messages:
    28,410
    Likes Received:
    15,125
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2002
    Location:
    California
    The expansion of the Japanese empire was bumping into our territory. Unless we were going to officially recognize their conquests and future conquests the probability of war would be over 50%. We were also supplying weapons and personnel to China. The Flying Tigers were civilians as far as we knew then, now we know they were still on the payroll.

    Not to mention we were fighting a shadow war in the Atlantic. Sooner or later Hitler would have declared war against us. The Japanese would have done so as part of their treat with them.
     
  4. Jade Falcon

    Jade Falcon WTF EREN?!

    Messages:
    11,406
    Likes Received:
    9,545
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA.
    So war was inevitable, regardless of what deals would have been made.

    Unfortunately, my memory of world history needs a little refreshing.....what were the Japanese at war with China about? Or were the Japanese trying to expand there as well?
     
  5. janice6

    janice6

    Messages:
    45,283
    Likes Received:
    56,787
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Location:
    minnesota
    Remember, the Rape of Nanking! Yes, it was Empire building by the Japanese also in pursuit of other country's natural resources.

    Japan also believed that other country's peoples were of inferior races and not worthy of treatment as human beings. This belief included the US people......Until they found us fierce in war, then they gave US servicemen the "honor" of beheading them after capture.

    [​IMG]
     
    Dr. Bill and Jade Falcon like this.
  6. Jade Falcon

    Jade Falcon WTF EREN?!

    Messages:
    11,406
    Likes Received:
    9,545
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA.
    I just saw a picture of a young woman holding her child while being beheaded.

    Really wish I hadn't seen that.

    :(
     
    janice6 likes this.
  7. M&P15T

    M&P15T All Hail King Kona

    Messages:
    26,241
    Likes Received:
    10,839
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Location:
    Arlington, VA.
    The Japanese in WW2 were worse than the Soviets and Germans, waaaay worse. Brutal, sadistic, horrifying, beyond comprehension.

    At least if the Germans or Soviets killed you, it was normally a bullet to the head or gas. The Japanese tortured people to death on a regular basis. The tossed still live babies from one bayonet to another, until they died. Being beheaded was usually only after a long period of horrible suffering.

    Inhuman, horrible, disgusting.
     
    elkhart and Dr. Bill like this.
  8. ddbtoth

    ddbtoth

    Messages:
    5,560
    Likes Received:
    4,765
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Location:
    Cheap lifetime NRA member
    The only people worse than the nazis and Russians were the 1930-40's Japanese. Being associated with them would be akin to hanging out with the NAMBLA folks whose particular kink in addition would be dead children. My father, who was spared the invasion of mainland Japan, only bemoaned the fact that we ran out of A-Bombs when we did. He would have glassed the whole island over and not shed a tear.

     
    Dr. Bill likes this.
  9. Ramjet38

    Ramjet38 Mentally Frozen

    Messages:
    18,706
    Likes Received:
    48,028
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2001
    Location:
    Wilderness of Life
    Tagged. I've got about half way and will pick it up later.
     
    Dr. Bill and Jade Falcon like this.
  10. CAcop

    CAcop

    Messages:
    28,410
    Likes Received:
    15,125
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2002
    Location:
    California
    It was a territorial issue. This was their second go around in a generation or so. When we were taking the Philippines from the Spainiards they were fighting the Chinese. They also fought the Russians a little after that too.
     
    TBO, Dr. Bill and Jade Falcon like this.
  11. M&P15T

    M&P15T All Hail King Kona

    Messages:
    26,241
    Likes Received:
    10,839
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Location:
    Arlington, VA.
    Seriously, WTF is wrong with the Japanese?

    I honestly don't like them. All I've met are very arrogant, like they're the master race.
     
  12. gwalchmai

    gwalchmai Lucky Member

    Messages:
    30,496
    Likes Received:
    11,463
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Location:
    Outside the perimeter
    I beg to differ. The Tri-Partite Treaty (?) required its signatories to come to each others aid if they were attacked. It didn't require members to join if a member attacked another country. Yes, Hitler was under no obligation to attack the US after Pearl Harbor. He was just thinking he didn't have enough folks to fight against.

    Neither Japan or Germany had the resources to beat the US or the USSR, even if they joined. They never thought they could, really. Hitler would have eventually run out of steam in Russia, and he lacked the reserves to try again in 1942. Even if we hadn't joined the war we'd have supplied enough Studebakers for the commies to beat him.
     
  13. Dave514

    Dave514

    Messages:
    38,449
    Likes Received:
    33,944
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Location:
    USSA
    Peace with Japan would have been a real problem for a lot of others in the short term and probably us in the long term.

    [​IMG]
     
    TBO likes this.
  14. ddbtoth

    ddbtoth

    Messages:
    5,560
    Likes Received:
    4,765
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Location:
    Cheap lifetime NRA member
    They've forgotten.
    I was at the Pearl Harbor Memorial in 1999 when some little Japanese man tried to elbow past me to get in front and take a picture of the Arizona. I'm 6' tall and 200 pounds. He was 5'4"ish? Maybe 120#? I hip checked him into the railing. He dropped his camera. I felt bad.
     
  15. plp

    plp

    Messages:
    16,558
    Likes Received:
    22,912
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Location:
    Redneck Riveria
    There is nothing wrong with the Japanese. There is far, far more right with them than wrong, from a historical perspective.

    However, they are different, in that all Asian and European cultures are different on a fundamental level.

    We all as humans respect the alpha leaders, and the Asian culture is completely built around the alpha mindset. The European mindset was introduced to Christianity over 2000 years ago, which changed us to respect a life of selflessness and servitude. While the Buddhist and Shinto religions tried to spread essentially the same message, were looked at historically as a very small subset of the culture and totally dismissed as something to be ignored.
     
    Jade Falcon likes this.
  16. Jade Falcon

    Jade Falcon WTF EREN?!

    Messages:
    11,406
    Likes Received:
    9,545
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA.
    This.

    I personally can't speak for any past Japanese culture, but the Japan and the Japanese culture and people that I've seen in THIS decade seem like good, decent people. I personally like their weird, quirky culture....which is pretty much porn and weird game shows. Their "back alley life" is....different, to say the least....perhaps a bit creepy and would probably be illegal in this country. And their artistry when it comes to TV and comedy is very unique indeed.

    All in all....I don't mind Japan. If it wasn't for the fact that I am very allergic to seafood and fish, I'd probably visit Japan sometime.

    I hear the Japanese government is pretty corrupt though. But hey.....what government isn't?
     
  17. as400guy1

    as400guy1

    Messages:
    8,403
    Likes Received:
    7,997
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    But what about all that tentacle....um...stuff?
     
    gwalchmai and Jade Falcon like this.
  18. Jade Falcon

    Jade Falcon WTF EREN?!

    Messages:
    11,406
    Likes Received:
    9,545
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA.
    LOL. And don't forget....aren't they the ones who came up with "2 Girls, 1 Cup"?

    No, I just checked....that was Brazilian.












    I hate the internet.

    :(
     
  19. powernoodle

    powernoodle

    Messages:
    7,714
    Likes Received:
    22,057
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Location:
    secret underground bunker
    Any people group is capable of savagery, as only the thin veil of human volition separates Billy Graham from Charles Manson. If you could see what goes on in American abortuaries, you would know that we are no better than the Japanese. In fact, we are far worse than the Japanese, having butchered, burned and dismembered 652,000 American babies in 2014 alone.

    The only difference is that abortions are not shown on the Smithsonian Channel, so we all get to pretend that the never happened.

    https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  20. M&P15T

    M&P15T All Hail King Kona

    Messages:
    26,241
    Likes Received:
    10,839
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Location:
    Arlington, VA.
    Individual horrible acts happen every day, all over the world. Sure, we know that.

    But with the IJA of WWII, the savagery was wide-spread and indoctrinated. Millions of IJA troops committed horrible atrocities, of every description, in all their theaters of operation. They were absolutely sadistic and soulless in their behavior. What they did to captured Allied troops, and millions of civilians in occupied areas, was an abomination. Just some of which is described in books such as "The Pacific" and "Unbroken". And of course there is the Rape of Nanking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

    Just truly horrible, awful stuff. Behavior that was wide spread in their Army.

    It seems to me that the Japanese psyche is so arrogant about being the center of civilization, they have no problem treating those they believe are below them with pure terror.

    Hopefully things have changed.