Looking for a handgun for women CCW

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by ithaca_deerslayer, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Not for me, not for my wife, just to show new women shooters an option. Thinking specifically of the subset of women (or men) who prefer low recoil. They probably want it for CCW.

    None of these: Glock, XD, .38 or .357 revolver, 1911, EMP, 92, Kahr, PPK, LCP, fullsize .22LR semi-auto, nor any 9mm. Because I've already got all of those :)

    I haven't made any decision, but have been thinking about these ones:
    Beretta 21 (.22LR)
    Taurus 94 revolver 2" (.22LR)
    Walther PK380

    Any suggestions/comment/opinions? Thanks :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
  2. faawrenchbndr

    faawrenchbndr CLM

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    Just MY opinion but I would not arm my daughter or wife with a
    .380 or .22LR. A hammerless .38 Special gets my vote, & TRAINING!


    Keep in mind,.....this thread will turn into a hornet's nest.:whistling:
     

  3. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Took all the way to the 2nd post to go off topic. You guys are slipping :)

    Let me restate this a little differently. I am an NRA pistol instructor and gun nut. My wife is just an NRA pistol instructor. We have a bunch of guns. We give lessons, hold events, let people try a variety of guns. We already have a bunch of guns. I'm thinking about getting some kind of gun that I don't already have :) My list excludes a bunch of guns, not because there is anything wrong with them, but because I already have them. :tongueout:

    Further instruction is a fine idea. There is a well known poster on GT who pops in to many threads where someone is having difficulty shooting left with a Glock. He typically says to the newbie, "get instruction, you can't learn it over the internet." How does that help? Similar, a woman comes to me in real life for some instruction. She's made a few hours in her life open for help. I do what I can. But do I say to her, "you need to carry this powerful one here, and don't bother with any other gun until you get more instruction!" ?

    Instead, I operate more like, "Here are some options to try, let's see what you like. These calibers over here are generally regarded as more effective in self-defense than these ones. Shot placement helps, too :)"
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
  4. evlbruce

    evlbruce

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    For what your looking for I'd go with a .22 wheelgun and call it good. You can teach/learn trigger pull, grip, sighting, and basic firearm safety just as well on it as you can with any other handgun. Plus the minimal report and recoil make longer range sessions much easier for beginners.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
  5. SigFTW

    SigFTW

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    These are what I would recommend.

    Walter PPK .380 is about 21 oz.
    Bearsa .380 is about 23 oz.
    S&W 638 or 642 (38 special) are very nice about 15oz. no hammer to catch on purse.
     
  6. Just_plinking

    Just_plinking

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    That bersa is cool. You can find them pretty cheap. Hickok45 has a video on one of them. I was considering one for my gf, but i'd like to keep all of my handguns 9mm for now. I want to try out the kahr cw9. My gf complains that my g19 is too fat (she has really small hands). Anyone know how the recoil on the cw9 compares to that of the g19? Sorry if this is a little off topic.
     
  7. Caladan

    Caladan

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    The PK380 seems to shoot a little softer than the PPK, probably because it is a locked-breech action instead of a blow-back, if I remember correctly. I know some people smaller persons who did not have any recoil issues with that one.

    However, if I were to add to the collection that you have, it would be a .22 magnum, instead of an lr. Revolvers in that caliber aren't too hard to find, and there is always the K-T PMR-30, if you can find one at a decent price.

    I'm hoping that Ruger will introduce the LCR in .22mag.....
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
  8. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    The felt recoil between those is about the same. Strangely, the Kahr polymer guns recoil not too much different than the Glocks. The Kahr grip while thinner is still well designed. Maybe more muzzle rise from the slightly lighter Kahr, but not much difference in felt recoil to the hand. That's my 2 cents.

    The main thing, however, is how it feels in an individual's hand. Different people have different perceptions :)
     
  9. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    I love my .22 mag rifle.

    But based on range experience, the .22 mag handguns are just too darn loud! The kind of person I'm thinking of isn't going appreciate that extra BOOM!

    I'll assume there's got to be some objective measure of the loudness somewhere on the internet to back up my perception that .22 mag handgun are louder than .22LR or .380 :)

    From a purely self-defense perspective, the .22 mag opens up interesting possibilities with the longer barrels, I'll agree.
     
  10. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Only a little softer??? Uh oh.

    The PPK, while having good points, is in the running for the worst gun ever :) I like mine, but others hate it. The recoil is hideously sharp. Even though I can shoot my PPK just fine, I'd rather shoot my .44mag all day, than shoot the PPK .380 :rofl:

    So, is the PK380 just a little improvement, or is it a lot of improvement? I'd hope the recoil difference is like night and day, or else it will defeat my purpose.

    The LCP is better behaved than the PPK with regard to recoil, but not by much. But it is also much lighter :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
  11. Just_plinking

    Just_plinking

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    True, I thought she was just complaining when I handed her the glock so that she would have an excuse not to shoot it, but she really can't get nearly enough finger on the trigger when holding it correctly.

    A word to the wise, don't hand a girl a 12 gauge shotgun to try out if she has no firearm experience. For a while my only good HD gun was a 12 gauge pump, so I wanted to show her how to use it. I took my time, showed her how to stand correctly, had her wear the appropriate gear and a padded jacket. She's a pretty smart girl, and learns quickly when with stuff like this, so I was pretty confident. She did well, and seemed fine with it, but I think the bang was a little too big, and now she has no interest in shooting. It's probably going to take a little time for me to undo that mistake. Should have known better, but anyhow. :rofl:

    Point is, this is a good topic to think about.
     
  12. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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  13. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Yeah, glad you have gained that perspective.

    When my wife stumbles along here and reads this, your story will likely anger her. She tries to teach women who's husband/boyfriend handed them some powerful gun for the first try at shooting. It often ruins the woman as a potential shooter, keeping her away from the sport for years, and virtually deprives her of her right to carry. My wife is trying to help rebuild them, give them confidence back.

    Not trying to blame you, just_plinking, as you were trying to be good about it. Now you've gained more experience about the issue:) What I really hate is all those YouTube videos of women shooting some gun a guy thinks it is funny to see her get knocked around with. :steamed:

    Heck, I was out someplace (not gun related at all), and overheard some guy laughingly tell a buddy about how he just had his wife try his revolver, and he slipped a .357 mag in. No I didn't say anything, not much I can do about strangers who talk about doing stupid stuff.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
  14. Just_plinking

    Just_plinking

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    You're right, those youtube vids burn me up too. That was the last thing I wanted, but ended up accomplishing it anyhow. I learned my lesson, one that is applicable to more than just guns too. Don't substitute your own sensibilities for someone else's. Even when you think you aren't, you may be doing it. I never even realized the issue until about a month later when I wanted to take her shooting again.
     
  15. jkm

    jkm

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    Not sure if you can find them anymore, but Charter Arms made a 3" revolver in 22LR. I've had mine for years, and it's usually about the first gun to come out for newbies to try.
    Then continue to the 4" 38 with wadcutters, as they are usually very mild to shoot, both in muzzle blast and recoil.
    Been eyeing up the new Ruger 2" in 22 mag. I think that could have some real possiblities, but never considered that it might have a wicked muzzle blast.
     
  16. faawrenchbndr

    faawrenchbndr CLM

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    If my post is "off topic",.......I have no opinion that you will find acceptable.

    Good luck,.......:wavey:
     
  17. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    So true.

    With handguns, as the NRA teaches, start with a .22, sitting at a bench, wrists rested on sandbags, first shot at a blank sheet of paper only about 10 feet away. And that is after all the basic instruction in how to shoot.

    Then from there, I increase in small increments, depending upon the comfort level of the shooter. If she is willing, we go from full-size .22 semi-auto, to standing and shooting comfortably with it, to a full-size .38 with mild loads, then to a full-size 9mm. Assess her comfort and willingness, then hopefully go to a compact 9mm. From there, a sub-compact 9mm, like a Glock 26, or maybe even the Kahr PM9/CM9.

    Once we've got to that point, we can consider the .38 snubby or micro .380 depending upon needs, interests, and stated preferences.

    So, you can see where I'm looking to buy another CCW option for such a shooter to try in this progression :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
  18. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    I was just joking. But I already own a couple .38 snubbies.

    Your opinion is still welcome :) I appologize for calling your post off-topic. (It said nothing about zombies, or the big bang theory, or anything like that, so wasn't actually off-topic).

    What low recoil, high power, small size, options are there to consider?

    faawrenchbndr, this is a challenge for you to come up with something good :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
  19. faawrenchbndr

    faawrenchbndr CLM

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    Ok, apology accepted, challange,.............ACCEPTED! :supergrin:


    -.22LR minimal recoil, high shootability are a plus.
    --Lack of overall stopping power limits it's effectiveness.

    -.22 Mag, offers better performance than .22LR, with great shootability.
    --Still lacking in stopping power, but well placed shots, head, neck,
    groin, low center mass, and hip will offer a better chance of a stopping shot.

    -.380, very light recoil in a small package.
    --Questionable stopping power....smallest caliber I would even think about.

    -.38 Special revolver, outstanding reliability, if hammerless is chosen,
    it offers little to no snag surfaces. Ability for more power if +P ammo is used.
    --Short barrel, basic minimal sights can be a difficult shooter for
    those with minimal skills or new shooters. Five to six round capacity
    can be an issue as well.

    -9mm, small frame, decent capacity, good overall stopping power
    --The smaller frame 9mm pistols can have a good deal of recoil not
    a great choice for small stature shooters. The highest quality of
    small frame 9mm pistols are $1k+, so cost prohibitive.

    The S&W .327 Mag could be an option, six shots, good performance
    rather mild recoil. I have no personal experience with this cartridge, but
    it could fit your needs and satisfy my suggestion of a hammerless revolver.

    I type like crap,......excuse the typos or grammar,.....
     
  20. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Anyone ever shoot one of these things? How's it compare to .38 in recoil? I've only read about them. Don't think I've ever even seen one in person.

    Also shoots the .32 H&R mag, and .32 long, correct?