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Longshot vs Accurate #9 for hot 10mm and Rowland (even Magnums)?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Lindenwood, Sep 11, 2015.

  1. Lindenwood

    Lindenwood

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    I have have been loading ".45 Rowland" with 800x with good results, but would like something that meters well for my next batch of powder. I have been digging around and Longshot / Accurate #9 seem to be the top powders for high-performance loads. Longshot seems to be a little more popular, if for nothing else because #9 is on the slow end and requires a lot more powder, but I haven't found any direct comparisons between the two.

    Anyone loaded both max and could compare the two?

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2015
  2. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

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    I think you pretty much nailed it. In 10mm, I think it is hard to get enough powder in the case to push things much beyond what a powder like Longshot can deliver within book values. Maybe with Rowland's slightly greater case volume (over the 10), #9 might be the ticket. Look forward to your results, if you decide to test it.

    I love #9 for 10mm. It doesn't hit nuke levels, but will deliver plenty for most practical applications, low flash, meters like water, really pleasant recoil characteristics (over Longshot).
     
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  3. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

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    In my personal testing, A9 gets the nod for high intensity 10mm loads for 155 to 200 gr bullets. Sticking to book data, A9 gets better velocities AND groups out of my Gen 3 g20. A hot 200 gr XTP is about tops in accuracy for me. The only demerit is efficiency. A can of A9 goes fast with those big charges.

    I do really like LS though. It is a great 10mm powder, and I like it for higher volume medium-hot loads.
     
  4. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Unlike some others, I just don't get 800x. I get better vel with Bluedot, longshot & aa#9. Vel are close enough between the 4 for me pushing 200gr bullets, why I have a 10m. In the first place. A 200gr bullet at 1200fps is plenty fast.
     
  5. Green Mountain Boy

    Green Mountain Boy

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    Long shot is my go to for 10 mm
     
  6. Bongo Boy

    Bongo Boy

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    I can't compare the two in 10mm, having only loaded Longshot in 40SW. Just moments ago I finished loading 300 rds with No 9 and a 185 gr hollow point cast bullet, and I think these will actually be my first AA9 loads in 10mm. I will be loading Longshot within the week though, but right now I've just finished with the No 9 loads and am experimenting with some 300 MP trials. They won't be much compared to No 9...even with a compressed charge I can only get about 15.4gr of 300MP in the case, and that won't be anything super heavy duty, but I expect they'll be stout and comfortable to shoot. We'll see.

    My issues with Longshot in 40SW included unbelievable muzzle blast, flash and harsh recoil. In fact I broke several parts including the slide on my Kahr with Longshot loads that I don't believe were max. But, so many folks seem to like it, when it came available again I picked up a big jug, and I think 10mm will be the only place I use it. Definitely not for sd loads though--unless I change my strategy to blinding my adversary rather than hitting him with lead.

    So far, I have not found any 10mm load at all that comes close to No 9 in terms of a match between max load and case fill. Seems every other propellant would do just as well in a 40SW case.

    800X isn't funny any more...when mine is gone it will be a distant and unpleasant memory.
     
  7. Lindenwood

    Lindenwood

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    Curious what your results are! Anyone gone "nuclear" with AA#9?

    I havent tested accuracy too much, but 12.0gr of 800x gets me about 1400fps from a 250gr XTP from a 6.6" barrel, with 15yd groups around 1", standing unsupported. Going up to 12.4gr gets about 1440fps, but with pretty significant case head expansion (yes at easily 50k PSI or more).

    I would like to be able to match that 1400fps velocity, and if #9 can make the same numbers at lower peak pressures (being slower) I'd certainly take it!

    And if it wasn't clear, I am definitely not afraid to work above book loads, but there isn't a lot of user data for #9 at these levels.
     
  8. my_old_glock

    my_old_glock

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    I will have to try some hot AA#9 loads.

    .
     
  9. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm 10mm Advocate

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    #9 is great but I detest the light density of it. I can use half the powder to get the same velocity using something else. I much prefer Longshot in 10mm. Blue Dot if I have the patience to deal with poor metering.
     
  10. Lindenwood

    Lindenwood

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    Disregarding load density, is longshot actually capable of higher numbers?
     
  11. my_old_glock

    my_old_glock

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    What do you mean by "higher numbers"? Higher numbers than what - #9?

    Longshot does produce higher velocities in some cartridges with heavier bullets than faster burning powders.

    .
     
  12. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

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    In my testing, LS doesn't get higher velocities than #9 when using book data. I dont have a link at the moment, but if you google for some of the older Accurate manuals, there are numerous more loads than are currently published.

    Accurate has been consolidating load data ober the years, and settling on the lowest charge weights. Example, they used to have a 180 TMJ load at 14.5 max and a 13.5 gr XTP max. They now just have the 13.5. Ditto for separate 200 gr loads: 14.0/13.5/12.5 etc.
     
  13. Lindenwood

    Lindenwood

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    Between the two powders, I am just trying to find out which has produced higher velocities in hot (re-read: above book) handloads. I am familiar with the available loading data, but some powders peak quickly or are inconsistent at only small increments above book (like Blue Dot) while others are much more gradual (like 800x).

    This is for "Magnum"-level .45 SUPER loads, but there is only a small number of people pushing even to, let alone past, Rowland numbers, so there is limited data available. However, being able to interpolate from user experiences with other cartridges would certainly give a good starting point.
     
  14. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm 10mm Advocate

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    Longshot has a more linear pressure curve than #9 and is more suited to working beyond published guidelines. With that in mind it is possible to obtain higher velocity with Longshot than with #9.
     
  15. dervisivitz dokes

    dervisivitz dokes Micheal D Dokes

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    800x provides good velocity and terrible accuracy in the 10mm. It makes me wonder if most 10mm people even test for accuracy or just try to get the most velocity possible for bragging rights. If you need to load the 10mm past 37,500 psi to get your desired power level you really should of bought a bigger gun in the first place. Sure you can overload the 10mm and not have it blow up right away, but you can do that with any cartridge. 45 Super 460 Rowland are good alternatives.
     
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  16. refugeepj

    refugeepj

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    #9 meters better, longshot gives better velocity with less powder volume. both work well. would use them for serious business and something more mid range for general range/target use. my experience with these has been limited to available book data, I do not exceed max, nor do I push the top end of the scale. no matter the powder I use, my loads will stay upper mid range. should I need more than this I will see if I can find a bazooka.
    the 10mm has impressed the hell out of me. I enjoy my G29 and G20, and have made the 29 my EDC. the 20 travels with me on vacation for a "woods" gun when an unpleasant black bear might visit. had a rouge bear close to our campfire this last summer, but fortunately did not see nor need to discourage said bear from eating one of my grandchildren.
     
  17. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Agree 100%, I won't be buying any more 800x when the rest of this # is done.
    The 10mm offers good power in a lt wt package, but it's not a 41 mag, much less a 44 mag, both better tools for certain applications.
     
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  18. happie2shoot

    happie2shoot

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    In my experience with the 10mm 800x has given as good accuracy as LS,
    I have only used cast boolits though, and the 10mm is not the equal of the
    357mag.

    I have five guns that shoot the 10mm with barrels from 4.6'' to 6.6'' and
    nineteen 357s with barrels from 1.750'' to 20''. With a LBT 187gr fngc
    the 357 always smokes the 10mm, even a 3'' J frame will shoot a 180
    cast at over 1300fps with factory ammo.
     
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  19. Glolt20-91

    Glolt20-91

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    I load for the bullet's designed velocity range; IMR 800X, Longshot, AA #7 and AA #9 all achieve excellent velocities and accuracy.

    800X has a much lower flash signature compared to Blue Dot. ....175gr Silvertip knocking on 1400fps from a 6" KKM barrel;

    [​IMG]
     
  20. fredj338

    fredj338

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    If you have a 3" 357mag that will do that, it is not the norm I assure you. I'm a big 357mag fan, but none of my several 4" guns will reach 1300fps w/ a 180gr bullet. You are right about the 10mm in that it is closer to a 357mag than anything else. Though with 200gr jhp or lfp, it certainly the equal of a 4" 357mag.