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Longshot questions.

1975 Views 36 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  WeeWilly
Well, once I get my bullets from xTreme I'll pretty much use up my AutoComp loading 45GAP so I'll be in search of a new powder. The local Cabela's doesn't have AutoComp on hand so I'll need to go to a new powder. My Front Runner thus far is Longshot because I get awesome velocities with the 185gr XTP in the 45GAP(1075fps, can't beat that) and it'll still give me good velocities in 9x19mm with a 124gr, 1162fps from what the "book" says so my question is..............is this a low flash powder? I roll my own defensive ammo and need something low flash just in case I need to use it in one of the "bump in the night" situations. Also, is it fairly clean burning? If both questions are "yes" then I'll go with it. Thanks for any info you can provide.
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Long shot is almost as slow as 2400, slower powder means more muzzle flash. When I could get my hands on 2400 years ago, I shot night courses using it. Night shooting is for me is strictly point, and the flash illuminates the target if shooting over the barrel instead of attempting to line up the sights. Plus if it is that dark, it affords me more opportunity to retreat.

I have used red dot, and tight group for many of my loads, both fast. Red dot is low recoil, and I have never noticed a lot of flash. I am more concerned with accuracy than magnum velocity, both RD, and TG give me that, both are very consistent. Long shot is my primary powder for 38 spl snub nose, and my 38/44 loads for my GP100.

For night carry I prefer my G22 loaded with PC 180 gr flat point over a conservative charge of TG. It yields 900 fps, and very, very moderate recoil for a 40 S&W. With the conservative charge not much powder is left to burn in the form of muzzle flash.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So do you think TightGroup or Universal would be a better powder to go with?
 

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So do you think TightGroup or Universal would be a better powder to go with?
I have used Universal, and it is just that universal, works in most calibers, but does not excel. It is about the same speed as unique but builds higher pressure than unique. I found TG consistent, and provides excellent accuracy with moderate loads in semi auto. I am about out of Red Dot, and have not found more, but it provides low recoil for subsonic loads, and when I have used it at night low flash. It is a very fast powder, I use it in a 1911 with soft cast FP at only 800 fps. Very low recoil, less than a 9mm, not the most powerful, but very, very accurate, and controllable.

Tight group seems to be available right now, if you don't need high velocity it would be a good powder for night shooting. Less powder burning at the muzzle means less recoil, and less flash.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'd like at least 925fps with a 185gr out of the GAP and 1125fps out of the 9x19mm with a 124gr/125gr bullet. More would be better though as long as there's little to no flash.
 

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There are slow burning powders that have low flash signatures. Powders like AA#9 and VV-N105 both come to mind. Unfortunately for GAP, and even 9mm, you do need something a little faster. I think I would give HS-6 a try, or WSF as timmay suggests is another decent one.

Frankly, even though I used VV-N105 when I was loading my own 10mm SD rounds (essentially no flash), I still think the whole flash thing is overrated. If you have enough ambient light to identify your target, you are not going to be blinded by muzzle flash, short of maybe an Alaskan shooting rounds packed with H110/W296.

JMHO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The local Cabela's doesn't stock WSF or HS-6 but they do have Tightgroup IIRC. Universal just doesn't get the 9's quite up to speed. I think Tightgroup will be the winner since from what ya'll say LongShot has more flash and noise then I'd really want to have for a self defense situation.
 

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I have no experience with it, but I believe I read that TG has a good bit of muzzle flash. Might want to research it further before purchasing any.
It has not been my experience with TG, or RD.

Keep in mind that flash is greatly reduced by using well lit areas. Situational awareness, and common sense plays a huge factor in not shooting in the pitch black. Criminals as a general rule do not like well lit environments. Personally for myself I would not shoot in any situation where I did not have a clear identifiable threat, or target.

If being shot at the darkness is your friend, and returning fire gives away your position. A running target is very hard to hit in the pitch black. If it is that dark very close range encounters the gun does not need to be any higher than waist high to hit the threat.

It's been thirty years since I have done a department night shoot. But we were taught to hit the target with light, turn off the light and shoot by instinct. After the first shot the flash was used to ID the target for follow up shots. Don't look at the flash, look at the target/threat.

Most officers in these exercises were above 50%, that is better than the current crop of NYPD officers during daylight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
My main "issue" is that when I find a powder that looks good for 9x19mm and gives me decent velocity for a 124gr/125gr HP there's no listing for it for the 45 GAP. Also, when I find a powder that works well for the 45 GAP, 185gr HP it either sucks balls in 9x19mm or there's no loading data for it.

Universal looks good in the GAP at 1027 fps for 6.3grs but in 9mm I can only get 1045 fps at 4.4grs which just isn't up to snuff.

Same deal for Tightgroup. GAP can get 974 fps which isn't great but it's also not too bad but 9mm only gets 1057 fps.

With VV 3n37 I can get 1248 fps at 6.6grs in the 9mm but there's no loading data for that powder in the GAP.

I really want to push my 9mm's to the high 11's or low 12's and I'd settle for 1150 fps if the powder would also get me mid to high 9's or low 10's in the GAP. 950 fps would be fine in the GAP but if I can break 1000 fps and get that same powder to break 1200 fps in the 9mm I'd be really happy as long as it's something the local Cabela's stocks so it'll be easy to get without driving all over town.
 

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My main "issue" is that when I find a powder that looks good for 9x19mm and gives me decent velocity for a 124gr/125gr HP there's no listing for it for the 45 GAP. Also, when I find a powder that works well for the 45 GAP, 185gr HP it either sucks balls in 9x19mm or there's no loading data for it.

Universal looks good in the GAP at 1027 fps for 6.3grs but in 9mm I can only get 1045 fps at 4.4grs which just isn't up to snuff.

Same deal for Tightgroup. GAP can get 974 fps which isn't great but it's also not too bad but 9mm only gets 1057 fps.

With VV 3n37 I can get 1248 fps at 6.6grs in the 9mm but there's no loading data for that powder in the GAP.

I really want to push my 9mm's to the high 11's or low 12's and I'd settle for 1150 fps if the powder would also get me mid to high 9's or low 10's in the GAP. 950 fps would be fine in the GAP but if I can break 1000 fps and get that same powder to break 1200 fps in the 9mm I'd be really happy as long as it's something the local Cabela's stocks so it'll be easy to get without driving all over town.
I love VV-3N37 for service style loads in 9mm. I have read others state that it was low flash for them, but for me it seemed to be a pretty high flash signature powder when loaded hot. No way near as low as N105. Not Power Pistol high, but higher than some of the others mentioned already. I think if I was going for a VV powder for both GAP and 9mm, I might try N340 or N350 (I like N350 a lot). There probably isn't a great deal of load data for GAP, but if I can find the box my load records are in, I can give you what I have for N350 in a 45 +P style 45 Auto. You could work up from there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I was looking at N340, forget why I didn't go with it though. I just wish Unique was easier to find. It was my "go to" power for close to 35 years but now it's rare as hen's teeth to find. If I knew Longshot was lower flash I could go with it. I can get 1135fps for the 9mm and 1075fps for the GAP with it which isn't too shabby but everyone tells me that Longshot had a heck of a muzzle flash, kind of like Blue Dot.
 

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My main "issue" is that when I find a powder that looks good for 9x19mm and gives me decent velocity for a 124gr/125gr HP there's no listing for it for the 45 GAP. Also, when I find a powder that works well for the 45 GAP, 185gr HP it either sucks balls in 9x19mm or there's no loading data for it.

Universal looks good in the GAP at 1027 fps for 6.3grs but in 9mm I can only get 1045 fps at 4.4grs which just isn't up to snuff.

I really want to push my 9mm's to the high 11's or low 12's and I'd settle for 1150 fps if the powder would also get me mid to high 9's or low 10's in the GAP. 950 fps would be fine in the GAP but if I can break 1000 fps and get that same powder to break 1200 fps in the 9mm I'd be really happy as long as it's something the local Cabela's stocks so it'll be easy to get without driving all over town.
In 9mm, you're talking about 124/125gr jacketed bullets right? 4.4gr Universal is just about the starting load for 124gr jacketed. I try to do right between 4.3 and 4.4gr and get 1050-1120fps depending on the bullet and OAL (PD or MG FMJ/CMJ/JHP). There's room to work up and probably get up into 1150-1200fps. Universal has been my main powder for 9mm (124gr and 147gr).
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Maybe I missed it, but why do you need only one powder for both calibers?

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I like to keep things as simple as possible. That's why I love the 45 GAP, I get my 45 cal bullet but I can use the same small pistol primer that I use in my 9mm. I'd like one powder to do it all so I can load both 9mm and 45 GAP so I can just stock up on one powder for the two calibers.
 

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Do you have any local gun shops that carry powder, instead of just being limited to what Cabela's has on hand?

I've noticed lately my local Cabela's has started getting more of a variety of powders in, but even in the past when Cabela's didn't have anything I could use one of my local gun shops had quite a bit.

I know someone mentioned WSF is low flash, and that would get both of your calibers in the range you want. I happened on a pound of it a couple months ago at Cabela's, but it was the only can they had of it and I bought it. A few days later when at my local gun shop/range I noticed they had 4lb jugs of it for like $92. I go there every week to shoot and made it a habit to look at what they have in stock before leaving and I've noticed they've always had some WSF in stock.

Longshot and WSF is labeled for shotshell use, and most gun shops/reloading supply stores usually have these in stock
 

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I like to keep things as simple as possible. That's why I love the 45 GAP, I get my 45 cal bullet but I can use the same small pistol primer that I use in my 9mm. I'd like one powder to do it all so I can load both 9mm and 45 GAP so I can just stock up on one powder for the two calibers.
The whole world of ammo is starting to think as you do about primers, Frank. Large Pistol primers are likely going the way of the dodo bird, as tests have shown only very minor differences in velocity from large pistol loads using Small Pistol primers instead of Large Pistol primers. Winchester, Federal, and CCI are offering .45 ACP loads using Small Pistol primers, including in CCIs Blazer Brass. (See http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/small-vs-large-pistol-primers-45-acp/). It's a good article. Shooters will have to be aware of the change, as trying to stuff an LPP into an SPP hole will surely cause a heart-stopping event.

Frankly, I think it's a heck of a great idea. The only LPPs I use are for .44 Remingon Magnum revolver loads. It's a kind of a bummer, having to have different size primer holders on both of my presses for that one caliber.
 
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