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RIP Stan Lee.. . .
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Are you Urban or Rural?

When you say Home Defense, do you mean:

1) Shooting at people/zombies IN your home (bad idea with a rifle because of the noise)
2) Shooting at people/zombies OUTSIDE of your home
 

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Lean & Mean
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Are you Urban or Rural?

When you say Home Defense, do you mean:

1) Shooting at people/zombies IN your home (bad idea with a rifle because of the noise)
2) Shooting at people/zombies OUTSIDE of your home
How about the zombies on the roof?
 

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Premium Member
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SHOTGUN...
For reasons already stated...
Easy target destruction, and you don't have to worry about the next door neighbor getting hit.
Why do some people assume the shotgun is doesn't follow the rules of physics? It has been proven a 55gr soft point 5.56 round will penetrate less than 00 buck. You also have to take into account that when you miss with a shotgun, you now have 9-15 pellets flying in all directions expanding, which increases the chance for collateral damage.

If I were someone's neighbor, and absolutely had to have someone miss and shoot a round randomly through my house, I would hope that it wasn't a load of 00buck.

I don't understand why this is hard to understand, but I guess there is such a huge mythology attached to shotguns that some people just can't see the facts.

And the noise? Firing either inside a building is a massive amount of sound. It's probably so much sound that at the time, you probably won't care about the difference and you'll be so full of adrenaline that auditory exclusion would kick in.

To those that really on the criminal being dumb to count in your favor I'll say this. Never let your plan rely on your enemy doing anything.
 

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Having burned off a 175 round burst of 7.62 belted and a 30 round mag of 5.56 (with another 12 mags going off near simultaneously) both in concrete bunkers/hangars during exercises with blanks.....

Loud? Yup. Survivable? definitely.
 

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Why do some people assume the shotgun is doesn't follow the rules of physics? It has been proven a 55gr soft point 5.56 round will penetrate less than 00 buck. You also have to take into account that when you miss with a shotgun, you now have 9-15 pellets flying in all directions expanding, which increases the chance for collateral damage.

If I were someone's neighbor, and absolutely had to have someone miss and shoot a round randomly through my house, I would hope that it wasn't a load of 00buck.

I don't understand why this is hard to understand, but I guess there is such a huge mythology attached to shotguns that some people just can't see the facts.
Not defenitive proof, but info from theboxotruth.com:
Remington 55 gr, Jacketed Soft Point = penetrated 4 walls (8sheets)
Federal 50 grain, Frangible = 8 sheets
Remington 2 3/4", #4 Buck, 27 pellets = 6 sheets
2 3/4", #1 Buck, 16 pellets = 6 sheets
Remington 2 3/4", 00 Buck, 9 pellets = 7 sheets

I think it's a wash and all effective rounds penetrate enough walls to be dangerous if you miss. Solution? Miss as little as possible and use a round effective enough that you are likely to use fewer rounds. To me that's a 12ga, to others that's .223. It's a personal decision and, truth be told, most common choices will likely work. The only exception I make is that I would avoid handguns unless one has no choice but to clear rooms and is worried about a large gun that a perp can grab.
 

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A pistol in a standard two-handed stance (fully extended) is the same length as an AR with the stock collapsed.
 

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Why do some people assume the shotgun is doesn't follow the rules of physics? It has been proven a 55gr soft point 5.56 round will penetrate less than 00 buck. You also have to take into account that when you miss with a shotgun, you now have 9-15 pellets flying in all directions expanding, which increases the chance for collateral damage.
You seem to be the one claiming they don't follow the rules of physics - a .33" 54 grain lead ball (using the measurements in NeverMore1701;s post) moving at a lower velocity, penetrates less than a pointed 55 grain (usually) mostly jackets bullet moving a LOT faster? Both physics, experience and tests say you are wrong. As far as flying in all directions - within your house the shotgun pellets aren't likely to expand much bigger than a softball before the group hits a wall.

More weight and more velocity means more penetration, even if the AR round was lead. Add a jacket and there's even more.
 

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You seem to be the one claiming they don't follow the rules of physics - a .33" 54 grain lead ball (using the measurements in NeverMore1701;s post) moving at a lower velocity, penetrates less than a pointed 55 grain (usually) mostly jackets bullet moving a LOT faster? Both physics, experience and tests say you are wrong. As far as flying in all directions - within your house the shotgun pellets aren't likely to expand much bigger than a softball before the group hits a wall.

More weight and more velocity means more penetration, even if the AR round was lead. Add a jacket and there's even more.
Been a while since I read up on it, but from what I remember the 5.56 tends to tumble and break up in drywall.
 

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Just from OP. Get the shotgun. You don't mention any training/skills/ area where you live.
Advantages. Price. You can get a quality pump for in $350 area nicely set up. You are looking at twice that for useable AR.
Look. The duck hunting shotgun looks less (violent) to folks who don't know any better.
Ease of use. Most folks can learn (basic) use of pump shotgun quickly. Its fairly easy to show them how to make sure chamber is clear, load, unload,etc the AR takes a hair more.

IF you must fire it and you live in town (or worse yet a trailer park) the shotgun with buck shouldn't go thru too many trailers. That .223 can go half a mile and still penetrate.

All that said and personally I have taken more AR courses then shotgun. (actually twice as many pistol as AR) The AR is what I grab. I figure by time they have killed my dog, broken thru at least two locked exterior grade doors... The stairs is my kill zone.

Realisticly check your doors, locks, get a old cell phone (that works/charged) by your bed so you can call the Police (even if you phone line cut)
 

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Always Carrying
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I love these cowboy threads...Shotgun in the bedroom....stay in the bedroom & call Police. Clearing your own house is a fools move. If they try and come throught the door, the 12ga pushes them back out. Just me and the wife since kids are in college. No reason to look for trouble, Mike.
 

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Lean & Mean
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I love these cowboy threads...Shotgun in the bedroom....stay in the bedroom & call Police. Clearing your own house is a fools move. If they try and come throught the door, the 12ga pushes them back out. Just me and the wife since kids are in college. No reason to look for trouble, Mike.
That's true Mike, but only for You. I have a kid in the different room across the house. Now, am I calling anyone who stays in his bedroom a craven? No.
Am I the cowboy than? Well...I think we know the answer by now. Have a good one.
 

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Always Carrying
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Everyone has a different situation Nestor. If I have to go look for a problem indoors, it would be with a handgun. A rifle or shotgun muzzle can be pushed away in a close range conflict. I can turn every light on in our house from the bedroom including the outdoor lights.....70's remote control low voltage system that can access all switches. If I have to go outside in the dark or light looking, a shotgun or carbine would work better. I live in the country with a few neighbors so some working room is available, Mike.
 

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Buckshot will lose velocity much quicker than a rifle bullet in free space.

It's better if you live in a city and are worried about a rifle bullet flying out of say a window in your house and into someone else's house. Maybe you're even shooting at someone outside your house or something.

The difference between a drywall, siding, and masonry is great. You can poke through drywall with a screwdriver. At work I sometimes had to use two 18V battery charges to get through one masonry wall with a hammer drill.

Given how thin and soft drywall is I think it's really silly to even talk about what firearm cartridges will go through it more.
 

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You can buy a good 12 gauge pump for $350 - small price to pay for a weapon that will produce a **** storm of buckshot with not much training.

Make mine an 870.
 

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Lean & Mean
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Everyone has a different situation Nestor.
Exactly Mike and that's why calling clearing the house a "fools move" may not be the best idea here. Yes it's risky, but it may be the only, available option for some of us. I'm glad that we can agree on this. Have a good day and stay safe.
 
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