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Personally, I think you give the average thug criminal FAR FAR to much credit for thinking about what they are doing and the environment around them. Most thugs likely have an IQ of 75, if that, not that of a sophisticated operator or SEAL, which is what you are assuming IMO. With a simple thug mentality, I think most of them know the sound of a racking gun and 99% will run not looking specifically for a gunfight or to be killed. Personally, I'd rather have them run from the simple sound of a gun than engage in a firefight.

We can all talk a big game here, but I'll wager nearly 100% of us would never want to engage in a fire exchange, particularly inside our homes. Being all sneaky and quiet almost ensures that guns will be fired in order to scare away or terminate the threat, and honestly that's the last thing any of us want.
Oh no, not common sense and reason? You're no fun at all - LOL!
 

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But you're not robbing his house.


If the government sends a brainwashed ex-CIA operative who 'doesn't exist' to his doorstep to infiltrate his house and terminate him, I suppose you'd be right. But if some thug looking for a quick score breaks into his house, said thug will usually run at the first good reason to, and racking a firearm is a damn good reason to.
I agree. There are two sounds that strike lots of fear into the human brain, the sound of a rattle snakes rattle and the sound of a pump shotgun racking. :supergrin:
 

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I agree. There are two sounds that strike lots of fear into the human brain, the sound of a rattle snakes rattle and the sound of a pump shotgun racking. :supergrin:
You know what's scarier than the sound of a shotgun racking? The sound of a supersonic 5.56/.223 being discharged indoors.
 

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Alot depends on your partifular situation. My go to HD gun is a Glock21SF with a light mounted on it. If things were to get particularly funky I could always pull the 12 guage Rem. 870,(also with a light mounted on it), out of the safe. Now if zombies were in my area, THEN I would grab my AR. Of course I live on a 1/2 acre lot in a residential neighborhood so that works for me. An AR would be a good perimeter gun for the country, but I would go with a good handgun first!
 

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You know, I have both, and I still can't answer this.

The M4 gives me insane capacity (essentially bottomless - I really doubt I'll fire 31 rounds in any altercation, and I have a spare 30-rounder just in case). However, it over-penetrates a touch and shot-for-shot is weaker (though no one will be laughing at a 5.56).

The 870 only gives me 6+1 in my defense load (Hornady TAP 00 Buck 2 3/4"). That said, though, I've used that load on a watermelon, a microwave, and a fridge, and the results are jaw-dropping. One solid connection with that 00 Buck and that individual is out of the fight permanently.

Not really a "best" here, as I see it.

Own both to prepare for contingencies!

If I was attacked RIGHT NOW, I'd probably go for the 870.
 

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Nothing will clear a house quicker than the sound of a 12 gauge. LOL!.


Never had access to hand grenades have you?



And Law.... i've seen several people shotgunned with both bird and buckshot.

While a 12ga to the chest will certainly get someone's attention, often permanently, it is never guaranteed. More than one shooting involving 2-3 rounds center mass with a shotgun have occurred because the bastard just didn't want to die.

The only absolute guaranteed single shot hit i've ever seen involved a contact shot with a 12ga slug, because the gangbanger who fired the round at that range couldn't miss and the gangbanger he shot suddenly didn't have a spine, lungs, heart, presumably kidneys or intestine.

Round #2 was apparently reflex. I was on scene within minutes and according to the paramedics he was dead before he hit the ground.
 

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SHOTGUN...
For reasons already stated...
Easy target destruction, and you don't have to worry about the next door neighbor getting hit.

In a farm house situation?
Maybe the rifle, but if money is no object...
Moat with gators... And...
Security cameras for watching the fun time after time.
 

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5.56 55gr soft-point is going to have the least over penetration (less so than 00 buck). Remember with a shotgun, you're responsible for every round down range.

An AR-15 preferable to a shotgun; a pistol is also a very good choice. You also have faster follow up shots with rifle and pistol, and generally a higher capacity.
A carbine is easier and faster to reload than a SG too. Half the reason I got rid of mine and swapped it for a carbine - so the little lady would have an easier time reloading it (if she had too, probably not w/ a 30 round mag though :)), and the other half was she could handle the recoil of the .223 a lot better than she could a 12 ga. (wasn't happening w/ her).

We now have two Mini-14 Tacticals (his and her's, her's is the pink one :)) and couldn't be happier. Plus she shoots it like a pro compared to the 870 12 ga we had.

Works for us -





Mine is the black one next to my M1A.


.
 

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7-8 round 12 guage tatical shotgun 18 - 18.5 inch barrel

or go 20 guage if recoil is a problem, either way the intruder will be stopped, if hit.
 

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Personally, I think you give the average thug criminal FAR FAR to much credit for thinking about what they are doing and the environment around them.
I agree, most criminals aren't rocket scientists, and are cowards besides, but some are surprisingly smart and crafty. Makes you wonder why they just don't make an honest living. Lazy or fast money I guess.

But I never play the "averages". The BG at my place just may be that smart determined criminal/criminals. There's no way of knowing. So I think it's foolish telling this guy such things as your position, what you are armed with, etc.

The way I look at it is my BG is not "average", I consider the BG is at least as good, or better than I am and he is determined. If he's not, then he has a problem. If he is, then I better not be giving him more information that he can use against me.


You all do what you want.
There are times when intimidation might work, but all things considered, I'd rather quietly wait in the dark to get the shot before he knows I'm there.:)
 

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Are you proficient with either?

You can pick up a very good quality pump shotgun for far less than an AR-type rifle, which makes it a good starting point, but if you're not proficient with it, it's a handful.

Do you have a sporting clays course near you? Sporting clays are a super fun way to become proficient and comfortable handling a shotgun. Don't get a stockless pistol grip gun. They look badass, but you want to be able to shoulder a shotgun to control it. The only mod you might want is a light.

As for a rifle, there are many, many options that can get you started a lot cheaper and more practically than an AR. For home defense, a simple no-frills SKS and a handful of 10-round stripper clips will do the job just fine.

Don't modify the SKS in any way -- don't be tempted by the fancy stocks or detachable magazines. They all detract from the simple combat usefulness of the rifle. With practice you can load from 10-round stripper clips as fast as you can change a magazine.

Again, you'll want a range that lets you shoot rifle-caliber. The SKS is a very easy point-and-shoot rifle, very easy to maintain, and makes a good club or spear in a pinch. :)

The unmodified SKS, if it has a bayonet, doesn't have a decent place to put a light/laser. If the bayonet has been removed, or you remove it, you can mount a light/laser there.

Another choice for home defense is a pistol-caliber carbine, like a Kel-Tec Sub2000 or the infamous Hi-Point 9mm carbine (don't laugh, they're ugly but cheap, reliable and accurate). Pistol-caliber carbines are more controllable and pointable in a stress situation than a handgun. They won't have the over-penetration problems an AR or SKS might, and unlike a shotgun, recoil is almost non-existent. Loaded with quality hollowpoints, they will seriously discourage an intruder.

They are really easy to control and handle in close quarters. Stick a laser/light combo on and you have a very handy, easy-to-use home defense weapon. 9mm is also one of the cheapest of all rounds to shoot and most pistol ranges will allow you to shoot pistol-caliber carbines at them, which makes finding a practice range even easier.

I have access to all the options mentioned and the 9mm carbine is by far the simplest and easiest to wield.
 

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Though I own a couple shotguns, my HD longarm has always been a carbine of some sort. For a while, it was a 9mm carbine of various type.
Then, it was my CMP M1 carbine, which I like a lot.
Lately, I picked up a Saiga 5.45 to shoot the cheap surplus ammo, and I find I like the round for HD. I have so far kept the Saiga in as sold condition. It has been 100% reliable through 600-some rounds, and pretty accurate at 100yds or less. Recoil is like shooting a 22lr. I use the Hornady Vmax 5.45 load for my HD load.
The Saiga is pretty cheap to buy, and I won't be too upset to have it sit in an evidence locker for a while, like I would with the CMP M1 carbine.
I am not one who puts any stock in the "racking a shotgun makes them run" notion...However, were such a thing to work, I dont see how the sound of a Kalshnikov bolt slamming home would be any different.
 

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I am not one who puts any stock in the "racking a shotgun makes them run" notion...However, were such a thing to work, I dont see how the sound of a Kalshnikov bolt slamming home would be any different.
It's because it slamms in Russian. American thugs may not understand that :supergrin:
I think that there is no right or wrong answer here. It all depends on your personal preference, budget and surraundings. Picking up the rifle is small apartment wouldn't be too smart, but if You have a piece of land it's gonna be a whole different story.
 

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I don't yet have a long gun for the home but I'm preparing to purchase one. This will primarily be a home defense weapon.

I know shotguns are often recognized as the go-to firearm for home defense but I've read some pretty convincing arguments for selecting a rifle instead (larger capacity, lower recoil).

Are shotguns still king when it comes to home defense or is there an AR in my future?
Count the pellets in your buckshot load. That's how many times you'd have to pull the trigger on an AR, to get the same shot pattern of ONE shotgun blast!
 

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