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Long range precision

  1. Anyone into long range precision shooting?

    I am looking for a group to learn from.
  2. Depends upon your definition of long range. I regularly shoot with a buddy who does a lot of 1,000 yard plus shooting, and I have used his rifle in .308 at 600-800 yards for fun. My own rifle is a .223 so I usually keep it to 500 yards or under although it is capable of more just because mine isn't very potent beyond that distance.
  3. Kinda...long range precision for me is 200 yards.
  4. After this thread runs awhile I’m pretty sure you’ll get some good advice...I’ve read posts and replies from some awesome shooters with awesome rifles here... sometimes it just takes a while, but they’re here...
  5. Try to research ranges in your area that have long range matches , start learning by asking question and watching what others use and perhaps join a club .
  6. I am shooting my 22LR at 300 yards.
    I don't generally have access to ranges longer than this, but when I do, I want to have something I have already dialed in, with my range data and just pull it out and go. Although I have other items, I don't think they are correct for what i am looking to do.

    So, I am at the point of wanting to find a forum to see what other people are using. I already have my own ideas and I don't want to pollute this thread with my ideas.
  7. After you learn all the "theory" you can, (best rifle, best scope, best ammo) then you need to put those theories into practice and find a range where you can shoot out to at least 800 yards and then do a lot of shooting.

    And for that, you'll need to learn to reload having spent the majority of your money (Unless you're rich) on the rifle and scope. I'd recommend 6.5 Creedmoor for the caliber and a Savage 110 rifle with a fairly long heavy barrel for best out of the box accuracy of a factory rifle and a Vortex scope. You can pick up a Savage Arms 110 Tactical with a 24 inch heavy barrel and the accu-trigger and accu-stock for $567 at Buds guns and spend the rest of your initial investment on a the scope.

    Keep in mind, too, that you can always upgrade both the rifle and the scope but most people don't exceed the capabilities of their equipment until they've had years of experience.


  8. Regarding equipment, I agree. For an entry level precision rifle that won't break the bank, a Savage is a great rifle and Vortex makes good optics. My .223 is a Savage 12 FV and a Vortex scope is what is on it. Neither are top of the line, but I don't believe either can be beat in terms of performance for the money.

    I would also check out one of the forums specifically dedicated to precision shooting. 300 yards with a .22lr is impressive assuming that you are making decent groups at that range. I would imagine that you would do quite well with a bit of instruction and a good centerfire rifle rig.

    Good luck to you, sir. There are few things more satisfying than printing tiny groups from long range with a good rifle. It will take the desire to blast a ton of ammo through some common firearm right out of you as you repeatedly challenge yourself to make smaller, and smaller groups... One round at a time.
  9. I've just started shooting at 200 and 300 yards. Broke a firing pin and put a stop to things for a while. Hope to have replacement pin here by the weekend.
  10. Yes, a good start is to get his book.

    Keep in mind, there are a lot of flavors of LR/HP shooting.

    The 600 yard light BR (also holds record for heavy BR in same round) world record was set in Memphis (really near Memphis, Lakeland) at MSSA. Winds 12-15 mph value. 0.04 MOA !!!!



    Cleckner is more of a LR "tactical" shooter, based on his experience.

    Then read some of the Brian Litz books.
  11. Best value in PRS rifle, Tikka T3x TACT A1. Around $1800. You'd have to go to $4.5-5K to get a marked improvement. If you are serious, get an optic that you can use on better, and better rifles. Also, keep in mind that different optics are better for better disciplines in LR shooting.

  12. I have a Remington 700PSS in .308 with a Burris XTRii 4-20 scope. I git it for a LE sniper class I thought would be fun. The class took us to 600 yards. I went from mediocre to shooting 100% on the shooting final. Loved it, but haven’t been able to keep up on it, like I want to.
  13. i am not really entry level. On the other hand, I don't get to play very often at the distances I want to.

    As far as group size there are days I think I am a god and there are days with a little gusting wind that I can hit the broad side of a barn.
    When I can't hit the broad side of a barn, I pull out a center fire rig and it is boring again.
    When someone tells me they shoot long distance, I ask them about hang time. Anyone making hits on targets with over a second of hang time has skills.

    Now I want to put it to a 2 second hang time.
  14. Sounds like you have a good idea of whats going on, rimfire (22 Lr) @ 300 yds is good practice and equal to centerfire at longer range .
    Short range (out to 150 yds) with a spring piston pellet rifle is also good practice at less $$ than even 22 lr.

    You dont have to spend big money to play at long range .
    I have/had several (cheap/300$ )savage rifles (mentioned above) that are plent precise to shoot over 1000 yds with "good" ammo.
    Even the 22 250 with 53 gr bullets will work to 900-1000 yds. Heavier , higher b.c. bullets are an advantage especially in the wind as you already know.
    Last summer i had the most fun i ever had out to 1000 yds with An AR 15 chambered in 223 Wylde/ 10x SWFA shooting 75 and 80 gr handloads.

    As far as optics, you NEED accurate and repeatable turrets regardless of brand or amount spent. I have 4 or 5 SWFA brand scopes and will buy no other......
    Have 4 Vortex i need to send in..perferably for a refund........

    The SWFA turret s are amazing(per $ spent) have well over 100 moa of travel which unless shooting ELR is more than you will need even without a canted scope base.

    Wind and your ability to read it ......is BIGGEST factor in accurate/precise long range shooting....this is where "doing " is better than any book , instruction or equipment. Although a windmeter with a paired rangefinder that you point and click that gives you a firing solution makes things easier.......
  15. Agreed on Savage for 1st precision rifle that won't break the bank. 24 inch 5R bull barrel, floating bolt head, etc. Savage generally have much shorter throats than Rem 700's also which adds accuracy. Also agree with es350 on SWFA scopes as best bang for the buck. I have a 10T in .308 with an SWFA SS fixed 10X scope and can keep 10 shots inside an inch at 200 yds with my handloads on a good day. It's a .5 moa gun for under 600. Once you chase sub .5 moa prices go up steeply and much of that is the shooter.
  16. Ditto on the SWFA scopes, best bang for the buck out there for glass in my opinion.

  17. With tuned handloads the savages are amazing as well per$ ....
    Just dont look at the bore with a bore scope! No way they should shoot like they do!!!!
    This is my 308 12 FV (under 300$ on sale and rebate!)
    100yds with 208 gr Eldm 5 shot group's with Varget and H4350 .... 20200216_100929.jpg

    All the savages i have personally shot will do this good or better with tuned handloads .
    Even of you spent $5000 on a custom rifle... no guarentee it would shoot as good as 3-600$ savage, although if i spent that much .... i would take it back until it shot to my satisfaction!!
    As long as savage produces rifles that shoot like the ones i have shot no need in spending big$.
  18. I am not a benchrester. I bench to test loads, scopes...., but where can shoot long range, there are not benches. I could almost see me getting a mountain rifle setup.
    I have access to a good recent manufactured Savage in 308 which someone has taken the time to work up a load. I actually recommended they get that rifle as one of their first rifles. It is very good heavy barreled guns. It has one fatal flaw, the POI changes significantly with temp. We assume it is the stock, but some people say it may be the barrel/receiver connection. The owner needs to buy a stock of chassis to see. I will also say it is a heavy rifle which is good and bad. It is great for shooting a box of ammo and not being worn down by the recoil, but when I have to carry it long distances ....
    The Begara in 6.5C I had my hands on is much nicer, lighter weight, more accurate with factory ammo than anything. I am VERY tempted, but .... just not sure if it is the way to go. Maybe it is a stepping stone to a rifle with more terminal ballistics at long range.

    I have access to a couple different SWFA scopes. I agree they are exceptional for a starter scope. They are great for a "range only" scope.

    I broke a couple scopes here recently and upgraded. I think the Athlon Chronos is much better for me. I have been a variable power man for many years. My eyes are not great and so I appreciate the extra power most of the time, but can be a problem at dawn/dusk.

    I was also able to play with something with a HUGE tube that makes the SWFA and Chronos look/feel cheap. Sorry but the name slips my mind. If I get something like a 50BMG or 408 or 412, I may go that direction.....just amazing.

    I have the range finder. The one I have is good enough for now. I have also taken my ranges from maps. It is about doing my homework before heading out. I am ok at ranging with the mildot, but....the others methods are better.

    I agree the weather is going to be a challenge. For the wind I have a meter, but I need to get better at reading it at distance. Interesting enough, I can do that without a gun so I don't need a "range" to play at. Pressure, due point....

    Although I am a computer guy, I have decided not to get a computer at this point. I want to be able to do the calculations FIRST, then I can make life easier.

    In the end, I think I would just like to hear what other long range shooters are doing, using, .....for 6-12 months before getting something new because I will only shoot maybe 500 rounds a year from this gun and I know there will be others who will shoot 500 rounds of more a month.
  19. No benches? Well I guess there is nothing you can do about that.
  20. I am not carrying that up the mountain.

    It is easier to think of me in sniper mode. Prone, Bipod, Tripod, or downed tree as my rest.
  21. I am a hunter first and foremost and that is what led me into long range shooting....
    All of my shooting is done prone from a bipod and agree , no benches in mts or in the boonies.

    The POI change on the 308 Savage.... could be anything but ammo is the first thing that comes to mind (not knowing what exactly rifle is doing)
    If wide enough temp change or one of the very unstable powders is being used , velocities can vary considerably.
    Next would be the scope as something could be binding against internal mechanism of turrets with the cotraction/expanding of temp changes.

    Also the Tupperware stocks on the Savages, all that i have seen are canted to the right IIRC , before ever firing i cleaned up the barrel channel to have plenty of clearence for changing temp and loading of bipod.

    I suppose IF barrel and action had large tolerances (small barrel tenon and large action thread) making for a sloppy fit it could cause POI change with temp change but would think it would have to be a large variance on temp since we are talking steel... which does move but not nearly as much as alum or plastic etc....

    So you are talking REALLY long range, 50 BMG or one of the Cheytac rounds....

    My 7mm mag or 300 will stay supersonic to a mile or over depending on bullet/ load ... i have never even shot that far and ammo/supplies +rifles are much cheaper than the big boys.
    I helped one of my cousins rebarrel his 338 Lapua last year and threaded , machined a muzzlebrake for it.... while a great long range round , it does not offer enough more (for me) over what i can do with 7mm or 300 to warrant the added cost of rifle, ammo and reloading supplies for me to want one or anything bigger, it is nice on days that the wind varies alot.
    The big guns 338 up are also hard on targets except at extreme ranges if shooting steel.

    I have actually come down in caliber the last few years to make it more economical and challenging.

    Recoil is less but not really a factor as the big guns have brakes on that reduce recoil to that of a much smaller cal.

    A good brake is a nice addition as well , the least amount a gun moves the more accurate it can be shot and lets you see your impacts.

    As to the scopes.... SWFA does all i need and for cheap, same with Savage not saying there is nothing better.... but at ALOT more money.

    It all comes down to equipmet that works and the person on the trigger, dont matter how much you spend.

    I had much less in my 223 AR and scope than other guys at the 1000 yd range, they all laughed and joked when they saw me pull out the AR ...asked what you plan to do with that?
    You might be lucky to hit something at 500 etc.... they has 6.5's 338's etc... at the end of the day they all had changed their mind on tje effectivness of 223!
  22. They (SWFA), along with Sightron, are "best-bang-for-the-buck" optics, but keep in mind you still don't get "something for nothing". Sometimes the "lower model" (fixed power vs. variable, lower magnification vs. higher, etc) SWFA is really the better optic. Study carefully before entering credit card number.
  23. Where did you get the legs for that bench ?
  24. The 308 Savage isn't mine and I haven't shot it since the owner has reported the issue. It is wearing a SWFA scope. The powder slips my mind, but when we talked about the issue it was suppose to be a non-sensitive powder. AND....I want to say it wears the cheapest stock. I am betting it is stock related OR because this was not an issue until the person started shooting more away from the bench, ....they are doing something different.

    In short, yes I am thinking of going to a big after I know which big hammer to get. OR to put it a different way, I am thinking to get a collection.

    For precision ARs, I have 22LR, 5.56, 308. Everything is in the same place and I want to get to the point where I am shooting the similar if not the same scopes. I shoot a lot of 22LR. Some 5.56. Less 308. The idea is to master the little and cheap, then the bigger items are not an issue

    I am kind of thinking of doing the same based off the heavy ELR setup. But I am still in the design spec side. I may change my plan before implementation. Do I really want to carry a .... up the side of the mountain? It costs me HOW MUCH FOR EACH PROJECTILE....? Lots of things to answer. It isn't like I "NEEEED" another rifle.

  25. Slow day at work......

    But since you said the 308 has the cheap stock (very flimsy) and is off the bench... probably on a bipod?... then would almost bet $ it is the stock.
    When bipod is loaded or uneven ground torque's bipod it moves stock easily.

    If barrel channel is not opened up it will touch/push barrel causing POI change.

    Quick fix, take 80 grit sand paper, smooth side against barrel of course, wrapped and pinched at top of barrel to keep from beveling top of stock around barrel. Set on floor on bipob run sand paper the length of stock while progressively applying pressure forcing barrel and forearm together.
    This is all i did and have no poi change issues.
    After this is done to further stiffen stock a channel could be inletted into forearm , add a length of alum rod and epoxy in place.

    Or stock could be replaced with a nice chassis and forget the elbow grease.

    I once read of a guy that kept flirting with a 338 Lapua.... said everytime he got serious about buying one he would lay on the floor , have his shooting buddy kick him in the shoulder as hard as he could while ripping up a 5$ bill and thought of buying one subsided for awhile........
  26. Yes I am. I got my start at www.longrangehunting.com Great guys there, and very helpful.
  27. I understand. It has been one of the reasons I have not gone heavy long range rifle before.
    I bought my 458WM to keep elephants out of my yard. So far, there have been no elephants in my yard since I got the 458WM. ;-) But when I want to feel like a big game hunter.....
  28. Any of the Precision Rifle models can do wel but not all will. Savage has a good reputation, but Ive found QC at Savage is a partime job. Tikkas a bit more expensive but they have an excellent reputation. Howa and Ruger also make good equiptment.

    The Original 1000yard Benchrest Club in Williamsport, PA has held classess in 1000yd but they are a first come first enrolled school. The schools sell out very rapidly.
    Its fun to shoot at pieces of claybird at 1035 yd to sight in and be able to hit them consistently. They google up easily.

    Benchrest shooters tend to be the friendliest most willing to help shooters you can find. This is another area to explore, there is often good equiptment for sale, nothing wrong with it just another shooter looking for the Holy Grail.

    The comments on the SWFA scope is to be heeded. The glass is acceptable but more importantly the mechanics work and repeat. Number one problem with scopes is the mechanics. The SWFA will give repeatable clicks all the time. Occasionally they will be on sale and you can get some outstanding buys.