Long Range Precision Shooting

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by certifiedfunds, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

    Messages:
    62,270
    Likes Received:
    15,959
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    I want to endeavor to learn it. Is there a good online source for beginners short of spending hours on the snipers forums?

    Yeah, I know you can't learn it reading but I'm trying to get educated a bit here in terms of definitions, technique and so forth.

    Where do I start short of going out and just shooting?

    BTW, I'm talking about learning to be proficient between say 300-500yds. Long term, slow moving skill acquisition.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  2. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

    Messages:
    62,270
    Likes Received:
    15,959
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Ok, so I see that GT has a GATE subforum run by Zak Smith with a good bit of introductory info. Didn't realize.
     

  3. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

    Messages:
    13,250
    Likes Received:
    7,137
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Location:
    Louisville KY
    Go to a highpower rifle match. If you need help PM me. Not a better way to do it and you will be surrounded by people who know their stuff.

    Its 10% equipment and 90% experience.

    You cannot buy skill at long range riflery. You can only acquire it.
     
  4. Tom D

    Tom D

    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
    Location:
    Woodbury, TN Cannon Cty
    Great suggestion High Power is a gas. 600 yard AR15 iron sights and have a 12 step program ready to call on.

    Its really rewarding and the participants really enjoy helping the beginners.

    Check out the NRA rules and reg it covers it all.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013
  5. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

    Messages:
    62,270
    Likes Received:
    15,959
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    I will.

    The GATE subforum has some nice articles for beginners by the mod. I like what he recommends for a beginner rifle (Rem700/.308, Leupold Mark 4, harris bipod, a little trigger work). Reasonable expense to get started in something new.

    Lemme read up a bit BB and I will refer back to this thread and hit you up.
     
  6. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

    Messages:
    62,270
    Likes Received:
    15,959
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    will do
     
  7. HollowHead

    HollowHead Firm member

    Messages:
    29,474
    Likes Received:
    13,444
    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Location:
    Where the buffalo roam
    The local complex here has a 1000 meter range and the distance guys shoot there. They're an odd bunch but absolutely fascinating to watch. The best I ever did was hit the paper with a "...hey, come here and try this" gun and got on the edge of the paper at 500. HH
     
  8. fgutie35

    fgutie35

    Messages:
    3,467
    Likes Received:
    1,170
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Location:
    deep southeast Texas
    A good way to start, is by learning ballistics, and ballistic coefficient. In other words, how does temperature, altitude, humidity, wind speed and wind direction affects bullet flight of a bullet with ballisic coefficient (X), with (X) speed 12in.from the muzzle. But the first step, is by reloading yourself. Otherwise everything mentioned above goes out the window. The secret, to accuracy, is CONSISTENCY, in all tree factors: equipment, medium and human factor.
     
  9. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

    Messages:
    62,270
    Likes Received:
    15,959
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    That's where I'm looking to start at this moment. Learning the language and the concepts until I can explain them. Then, buy a decent beginner setup, do some shooting and put them in practice. Learn to use the charts.

    I'll tell ya I've been thinking about this a while. A few nights ago I bought one of those ballistic computers for my iphone and started to play with it and realized I don't have the slightest freaking idea. So I'm backing up.

    Naturally I want to buy a new gun and gear but I want to have some idea how to use it when I go to the range.
     
  10. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

    Messages:
    62,270
    Likes Received:
    15,959
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    My range has 300 and is always "just about to start" on a 600yd range. Don't know of anything beyond that around here. In my mind if I can learn and get competent at 300 with a beginner .308 setup that would be a good start and we can go from there.

    I found it very interesting that Zak highly recommends shooting with a suppressor. That'll be phase 3 or 4 if I can stumble my way to any skill whatsoever.
     
  11. Bruce H

    Bruce H

    Messages:
    4,424
    Likes Received:
    1,481
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2000
    Location:
    missouri
    Talk to the people over at benchrest.com. They can answer any question you might have.
     
  12. capnjim01

    capnjim01

    Messages:
    3,834
    Likes Received:
    1,891
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Location:
    East, Texas
    Depending on your experience you might check out the Appleseed website. The have shoots on weekend and although mostly use .22 it can give you an idea of proper techniques
     
  13. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

    Messages:
    13,250
    Likes Received:
    7,137
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Location:
    Louisville KY
    This is a horrible way to learn to shoot long distance.


    I've never met a bozo who could quote ballistics and velocities and coefficients to me who could shoot worth a crap. People who argue over crap like that can't tell you what a 7-8 MPH breeze looks like in the mirage of a scope.
    Nor can they tell me the come-ups or correction you need to apply. Because, while you might be able to compute it on paper-- there's no substitute for putting rounds on paper and KNOWING how your gun and load reacts to the wind.

    Practical accuracy is not achieved with ballistics tables. I can take a mediocre round like a .308 in an average rifle and put it in the hands of a master class shot and shoot circles around the hottest most modern long range load in the zootiest rifle with an less than accomplished shot. Ballistics charts can tell me what a load SHOULD do in the wind on paper but I've never shot a rifle yet at 600-1000 yards that did exactly what it was supposed to do from the ballistics charts. There's enough variation in loads and guns that it makes the theory less than useful.

    Not beating up on you. Just saying. You want to learn long range precision rifle you need to burn out a few barrels and get some experience watching bullets blow around in the wind. Studying tables and crap is a huge waste of time.

    F-class rifle matches are also not a bad way to start but honestly it doesn't teach you as much about shooting a rifle as highpower will. When you learn how to HOLD and shoot an accurate rifle from positions and hit stuff way out there you will know something!
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013
  14. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

    Messages:
    62,270
    Likes Received:
    15,959
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    BB - I'm not talking about memorizing tables. The entire thing is new to me. Turns out the articles posted here in GATE by Zak are just what I was looking for.

    And THANK YOU ALL for not launching into jokes about using "long range" and "300-500yds" in the same paragraph. :rofl: I get what is meant by the supersonic limits of a bullet now and that those ranges are not "long". To me anything out past 200 is "long" right now.

    I am a bit disappointed though when searching practical long range shooting in Louisiana as I am coming up empty handed. Some high power rifle matches not to far away though. Longest range I can find is 600 and I can be a member for only $150/yr.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013
  15. OGW

    OGW SAF

    Messages:
    10,614
    Likes Received:
    19,592
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Location:
    N.W. Lower Michigan
    BB is calling it well. I shot high power National Match course (200, 300, 600 yd.) and 1000 yd. with an M14 rifle with peep and post, military competition. Only experience can get you up to speed regarding lighting, wind, temp, mirage and such. The only thing I'd add to what's been said is to keep a log book of every round you fire recording lighting, temp, wind speed/direction, etc. and the corrections you made for conditions. Since I was .mil, we had to use provided rifles (built by team armorer) and gov't issued match ammo. If you can't hit the paper at 600 or 1000 yds. with your sighter shots, you're s.o.l., and that's where the log book comes in handy.
     
  16. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

    Messages:
    13,250
    Likes Received:
    7,137
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Location:
    Louisville KY
    Cert,

    The problem with trying to "learn" long range precision rifle outside any other venue than some form of competition is its logistically darn near impossible. Its takes REALLY long distance ranges and most public ranges really aren't built for this--think about the time involved just in going down 1,000 yards and checking your target?!? And there isn't a spotting scope made that's going to let you see bullet holes in paper past 300 yards on a good day--200 on an average day.

    Competition is the way to go because you will be on a range with pull targets and someone will be working the pit and pulling and marking your target while you shoot so you can get feedback and make corrections without having to drive 2,000 meters between shots. You need to use pull targets to get the feedback you need to understand what your bullet just did. You shoot a 10 shot group at 1,000 yards without a marked pull target you will have no idea what ANY of those shots mean....some might have been shot in a breeze and some in a dead calm....but WHICH ones? See... Its all about useful feedback. Really, only way to do that is to compete. Unless you just happen to have a few friends and access to a KD range with pits on the days when there isn't a match.

    You know where you start. A gun, a 1,000 pieces of brass and a 1,000 primers and match bullets. You get a load that can put 10 shots into 2.5-3 inches at 300 yards and your load 1,000 of those bullets. Go to matches and shoot. Use that brass three more times....4,000 loadings total. Throw the brass away, buy a new barrel for your gun and do it again. You'll probably be close to shooting into expert class. By the time you shoot out your second barrel you should be a master class shot.

    Don't mess with the load or gun. Learn how to shoot the load and gun you have.
    Changing things like guns and loads sets you back midstream. You are trying to learn something about yourself--not the tool.

    And yes, barrels burn out about 4-5k rounds for long range accuracy. I've burned out 4 myself.
     
  17. byf43

    byf43 NRA Patron Life Member

    Messages:
    13,288
    Likes Received:
    2,894
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Location:
    Southern Maryland
    I'm no expert on long range shooting, and I don't claim to be one.

    With that out of the way, go to a High Power Rifle Match, and you can/will learn a lot.
    If you can get into a 'clinic', that's even better.



    Breath control. Sight alignment. Trigger squeeze. Follow-through. Repeat as necessary.
     
  18. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

    Messages:
    62,270
    Likes Received:
    15,959
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    I've learned (self taught) those shooting fundamentals shooting precision rimfire. I've never done anything out past 100 yds with the exception of hunting rifles at 200
     
  19. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

    Messages:
    62,270
    Likes Received:
    15,959
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    I understand completely
     
  20. dg84

    dg84

    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Location:
    Ohio
    Head over to Snipers Hide. A wealth of information. Next, find your local place that holds tactical type matches. They usually have you shooting steel targets which give you instant feedback. I actually just shot a long range match today. We shoot from 234-1000 yards at various sized steel targets. It's the most fun I've ever had when it comes to shooting.


    Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire