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Linux Distro.

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by syntaxerrorsix, Nov 26, 2008.

  1. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    [/SLIGHTRANTON]

    I've dual booted 'em all I think.

    My first encounter was Red Hat 5-6 years ago, I still have a HUGE reference manual and access it frequently. I re-furbished a new box with XP and Ubuntu and have spent the majority of my time tweaking 8.10 and searching for CL fixes for hardware conflicts and substitutes for flash/internet/video/sound plugins. While I don't have the expertise to compile my own packages or structure new programs to accomplish my goals, I do have enough sense to follow directions and troubleshoot. What I don't know is if I am the only one spending hours hacking around in the dark trying to bring a promising OS into reality.

    After a weeks of configuring and researching (this time around) all I can really say is that I have a better understanding to why it won't replace OS X or Windows. I can accept this, but I can't help to feel a sense of disappointment.

    I'm fully aware that, "open source" and, "free" are both priceless and subjective but for the love of Dog why hasn't it improved much in 6 years? Has the community collapsed or are we trying to make it more difficult than it needs to be?

    I type this under Ubuntu/Firefox and a patiently update/research/yell at the monitor and hope that someday there will be a Distro that will combine stability, usability and a half way decent library of codecs that isn't stumped by 2001 technology.

    [/SLIGHTRANTOFF]


    PS.

    I don't blame hardware.
     
  2. noway

    noway

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    So what's your questions? or is it why has it not been more easier? It is and let me tell you why.

    [counter rant mode on]

    My 1st dab at linux was in 1995 when windows 95 1st came out. Back then all you had where windoze 3.0 and 3.1 :crying: . I started with a distro called slackware and the kernel rls has just started with the 1.0 releases.

    back then you had no support , you had no wiki, you had a limited internet users with a limit http resources and we where stuck on BBS and maillists or compuserv

    No linux forums
    No linux groups or clubs
    Not any big numbers of pressbooks on linux

    all of the above you had no hands over fist over more hands over fists availability ;)


    Your complaining about the NOW linux, man go back about 10+years and then you would have an valid complaint.

    from the sounds of it , you need a few linux books and then you need to post whatever is the problem(s) with that "flavor" of linux that you want to run.

    From my take their's thousands of distro ( and I'm not kidding ) in hundreds of languages and whatever problem(s) you might have , have been ranned across by somebody else. Quickness in finding a solution could be as quick
    as inserting http://www.google.com into your browser?

    [/counter rant mode off]

    lastly,

    the biggest problem with convertees ( windows to linux users ) are they are lazy and want everything tobe like it was in windows, and brain wash into Bill's ways.
    Will sorry linux is not that way, it does requires some use of the brian power but it's not idiot proof nor is it straight out of the box PnP.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008

  3. Big Al 24

    Big Al 24

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    I have to agree with noway. My first foray into Linux was because of Windows ME. At the time I chose one of the first iterations of Mandrake. It was a little better than it was when noway first tried it, but not much. When you're dealing with Linux it's best to remember that you get what you pay for in a sense. Just have some patience realize that you don't always get some of the instant gratification that windows provides, but you do get much in return. It can lead to just as many headaches- though it's nice to know you didn't pay for them.
     
  4. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    I feel maybe you did not read my entire post. I ran Red Hat 6 years ago with the same outcome.

    I'm not a window$ user coming to Linux. I'm a DOS user suffering through windows and I'm not lazy nor seeking the easy answer. I'm looking for improvement not change we can believe in.
     
  5. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    BTW

    I'm not speaking for the fly by nights one hit wonder kernel changes that define an author a new, "version."
     
  6. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    I mentioned price and free as beer free and free as libre. I think you are both missing the point.
     
  7. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    There may be more documentation and resources but the product itself as an entity O/S has not improved appreciably.
     
  8. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    I do however get the same responses from die hard Linux fans that accept mediocrity in the name of research and I can respect that to a degree.

    Like I said, it was -semi-rant.
     
  9. Dandapani

    Dandapani

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    Fedora 10 came out this week. Try it, you'll like it. I'm running Fedora 9 and have run Fedora since Fedora 2 when I hopped off RH 9!
     
  10. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    Thanks, I'll look into it. At this rate I'll have all the ISO's for any popular version :) Maybe my first choice was correct all along.
     
  11. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    I had to go look, my last RH edition is 6! Still have the 1200 page book and its supplemental! Always a good CLI reference :)
     
  12. Big Al 24

    Big Al 24

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    I'm not a die hard fan of anything in the OS distribution world. I'm typing this on a Windows/Linux machine with another Linux machine fileserving in the background. There is no panacea. Macs are overly expensive, Macs are limited, Macs can be crashed, Macs have little place in the corporate world, Linux is tough on the non command line initiated, the Linux world is too diverse, too many people don't know what an operating system is let alone how to install it, Windows is bloated, Windows crashes, Windows is like Frankenstein, Windows is as expensive as a decent processor, etc...
    I'm no fanboy, and I really think the ultimate OS has YET to be made....
    That being said, I acknowledged your frustration with Linux. I just think it has it's achilles heels just like all the other options out there. I also disagreed with you just as noway did because it has improved amazingly. It used to be hit or miss with hardware, now as long as you're not bleeding edge you're probably ok (even macs). There are MANY more features and fuctionality in general compared to the early versions of the few distributions that were out at the time. I would like to send you the first version of Mandrake that I installed so you can really see what I mean. In many ways it's caught up to Windows without any of the funding or resources that companies like Microsoft or Apple have. Don't take for granted many of the features that we have now that weren't around a few years ago which Linux has adapted to fairly readily. 32bit display, ATI video drivers, codecs, decent UI's, etc...
    Basically, I have never met a computer or intelligent device that hasn't frustrated me in some way or another. And I cannot count all of the time that has been wasted "learning" my way around a problem which will ultimately be gone in the next distribution or patch. And as long as you stick to more "windows like" distros like Ubuntu, or PCLinux, you'll never get the full benefit of having a stripped down smooth running Linux OS.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  13. syntaxerrorsix

    syntaxerrorsix Anti-Federalist CLM

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    As I have just re-started my Linux approach I'd be interested in which version of Mandrake you are running. I have nothing but time and will be burning Fedora 10 next unless you believe you have an advantage with Mandrake. While I appreciate the xwindows gui I'm not intimidated by command line and spent the first years of my life working in DOS with 8" floppy media and cutting edge, lightening fast 300 bps modems and ATDT code macr0'd into my homemade keyboard while playing Wumpus and Collosal Cave Adventure :)
     
  14. Big Al 24

    Big Al 24

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    No I ran Mandrake almost 10 years ago. Now I run Ubuntu sometimes, Windows mostly, and Gentoo. I'm not saying you should switch to Linux if you like Macs or anything else. It's just when you look at all of them from the top down they all have their headaches and drawbacks.
    Now I'd recommend Ubuntu, Fedora, Suse, Debian, or Gentoo. In the past I have liked Mepis, Knoppix, Kanotix, DSL and a couple of others. It really has more to do with what you like to do with your computer that would help me determine what distro you might like. And I know you were ranting, we've all been there.
     
  15. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

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    +10000000

    I spend a fair amount of time helping out in Linux support channels, mostly for Ubuntu. The most common thing you hear from someone who doesn't know their rear end from a hole in the ground is, "I'm computer literate".... No you're not, you're Windows Literate. Once you convince them that Linux is Not Windows, and there is almost zero comparisons, you can actually get somewhere teaching them. Unlearning Windows is about the hardest thing for a new Linux user. I guess however, if we'd been spoonfed Linux for 30yrs, then someone wanted us to use XP, it'd be hard to unlearn the Linux way.

    I really only use Linux, and only have an XP partition to sync my Zune..(one of the few things MS did right... :))

    IGF
     
  16. void *

    void * Dereference Me!

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    The lack of codecs is not actually the fault of Linux, or it's being free. It's the fact that they can't really be legally used because most of them are encumbered - they can't be legally distributed for free. This is not a technical problem - if the codecs *could* be used and distributed, pretty much every distribution would have had them years and years ago. They can't, so you're stuck manually installing the ones that you can legally manually install, or doing without.

    I do think it's somewhat ironic that someone who claims he can't compile his own packages is claiming to have the knowledge required to accurately assess *any* kernel change as a "fly by nights one hit wonder". I don't know - it's possible you can code like a madman, but never bothered to figure out how to pull source packages and build them - but it seems a little discordant.

    Of course, I'm probably biased - I'll take a Linux box with wmaker over a Windows box for pretty much anything other than gaming - and that's only because the games I want to play generally don't have Linux ports. Heck, my (running windows) work laptop isn't much more than a place to run a cygwin X server so I can ssh into the Linux boxen and get what I need to get done done ... but then again, I'm not picky. I mean, I prefer wmaker over more eye-candy laden window managers.

    What OS to use ought to be a function of what you use a machine for, and what you are used to, more than anything else. If you need all the proprietary codecs and all of that, then get an OS that ships them. No worries.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  17. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

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    You gave a great explanation of the codec issue...... :cheers:

    Truth be told, most Linux distros, although the codecs aren't preinstalled, usually have an easy way of installing them that is "unofficial"... For example, for Ubuntu variants, you can add the medibuntu repository, and have all the codecs, DVD support, etc.. installed in about 45sec.

    http://www.medibuntu.org/

    Nothing against the OP, but you're either 1. Getting piss poor help or 2. You're just not looking/trying. You don't need a subsitute for Flash, just use Flash... Most video/sound plugins, are included included in the w32codec pack in the medibuntu repo. Now if you're using 64bit, thats a whole other issue, 64bit, IMO, is not quite ready yet for Ubuntu, to many drivers not available, some programs are not available in 64bit, etc.... Suse or Fedora are probably the best 64bit distros.

    IGF
     
  18. Big Al 24

    Big Al 24

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    I would agree with everything that's been said after my last post. He's just frustrated with the Linux.
     
  19. DoubleWide

    DoubleWide

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    What are you looking for?
    You say you're a DOS user putting up with Windows, so why don't you go back to the command line completely?

    What do you want it to do?
    For me, the OS configures hardware and launches programs. When I install Linux, I just install the base Debian (just cli). Setup the repositories then install a basic environment and aptitude. Boot in and use aptitude for whatever programs and codecs I want. The last time I installed Flash Player easily by going to video.google.com (not youtube) and clicking install.

    How much do you want it to be like Windows and how much not like Windows? Linux is very Unix with a possible Windows-ish GUI slapped on top. You want command line, it's all there. You want GUI everything, it's knowing what to install and what not to.

    Windows-like setup
    KDE-core
    aptitude
    open office
    firefox
    amarok or vlc
    k3b
    guarddog

    Unix-like
    There's tons of compilers if you want to do programming plus much more. Everything is available through the CLI. GUI's just allow people to change things quicker.

    Most distros are just slapped together software with some support based on what the group wanted. Last time I looked, 129 distros were based on Debian. I'd just prefer to start with a stripped Debian and add what I want.

    Again, what do you want it to do?
     
  20. noway

    noway

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    better said then me ;)

    But your right linux and windows is not even in the same camp. I find in my current profession, that most people really believe MS/windows is so great and that most Unixes are hard and difficult when in it fact it's the totally opposite.