Lingering Questions Regarding FBI Caliber Choice ?

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by ChrisD46, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. fredj338

    fredj338

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    When all we had was ball ammo, 45 all day every day. Today, good jhp have gotten the 9mm off its knees & put it into the more than acceptable category.
     
  2. archery68

    archery68

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    When I conceal carry I do so sometimes with a 9mm, sometimes a 40 and sometimes a 45. All with good, reputable hp defensive ammo. I have full faith in all of them. I think bullet design has made the 9mm a lot better than it used to be and will get the job done. There is nothing that trumps bullet placement. I own, shoot and like 9,40,and 45. I will say this. Not being rich, I can’t afford to buy 1000 rounds at a time of 9, 40, 45 in gold dot or hst. I do not reload and probably never will. I can afford to buy the fmj to practice with or to stock up on. If the crap hits the fan and all I have is fmj you can bet I will choose the 45 first, 40 second and 9 last. The 9 can be equal to and maybe better than 40 and 45 with proper bullet but needed a lot more help along the way to get there. Just my opinion of course.


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  3. ChuteTheMall

    ChuteTheMall Wallbuilder and Weapon Bearer

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  4. Shawn 3212

    Shawn 3212

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    View: https://youtu.be/UfWXfnOPivg



    Here’s a test done on a ballistic torso. Maybe not as scientifically accurate as the IWBA testing protocol, but interesting, nonetheless. He starts the testing with 9mm.
     
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  5. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    I can't even tell what his conclusions were.

    Paul Harrell's meat targets are more scientific, FCOL.
     
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  6. rock_castle

    rock_castle Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness

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    They went with the choice that makes the most sense.
     
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  7. fredj338

    fredj338

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    He must know thst pnce you breech the gel, continuing to shoot isnt telling much, the gel is no longer a solid mass. Still, always fun shooting stuff. Notce how the 357sig equiv load exploded the gel dummy onto tiny fragments with all the energy dump.:nutcheck:
     
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  8. 1bigK

    1bigK

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    I think that you are stepping on some sacred ground there, Cheygriz. What Jeff Cooper had to say about caliber and effectiveness was entirely based upon what ammo was available and caliber related ability, reliability, and track record up until that point in time.

    Also a lot of shooting technique that we take for granted today are a direct result of what Col. Cooper taught as he modernized everything related to the combat pistol.


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  9. Teecher45

    Teecher45

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    I agree with your opinion, especially on the FMJ observations.
    I dumped all of my short-barrel .45’s though. I couldn’t find any reliable performing bullets for them. What do you carry and what do you carry in it?


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  10. BBMW

    BBMW

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    I commented on Ellifritz, if not in this thead, in others. His "study" bears much resemblance to the much debunk Marshall / Sanow work. I don't know why it would be considered any more valid.

     
  11. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    Actually the FBI has stated that they chose the 9mm because it "best met their needs". From that everyone assumed that the 9mm was chosen because it was "the best caliber" which was not what the FBI said.

    Obviously civilian needs for a SD caliber are not the same as the needs of a large government agency and should not be misunderstood as being the same.
     
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  12. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    Very true people are larger than they were just a couple decades ago. There is more gang activity, more guns and more drugs. Back in the day the good guys carried J frames and the bad guys were more likely to be armed with a switch blade knife than a gun.

    Yes the threat has increased so I let the FBI have their 9mms, I carry the modern calibers 357 Sig and .40.
     
  13. Railsplitter

    Railsplitter

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    If only there was a way we could make magic bullets for all the other calibers.
     
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  14. archery68

    archery68

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    I carry a Glock 19 Gen 4 with Hornady critical defense and lately been trying some Sig v crown 124 grain.

    In 40 it’s HKVP 40. Running 165 golden sabers or Winchester ranger t series 165.

    In 45 it’s Glock 30 Gen 4. Have run 230 Hydrashok but carrying 185 golden sabers now.

    They all cycle and shoot fine in my pistols. I don’t do any other testing on bullet performance. They sell it, I buy it. I buy stuff on sale that is good stuff and don’t look back. There are good choices out there that don’t cost over a dollar a round. I think a guy could go broke trying and chasing the golden bullet!! I have read and read through the years on reviews and to be honest I’ve gotten tired of it. Everyone touts theirs as the best. I think if you go with a reputable brand and hollow point and put the rounds where they need to go, it will do the trick. I have read favorable reviews on those bullets. I don’t kick in doors looking for bad guys anymore. My purpose now with carrying is to get my family or myself out of dangerous situation. I live in rural middle america and the chances of me having to use my cc pistol is pretty slim against a person. Unwanted critters on the farm or on my property is more likely.


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  15. RichardB

    RichardB Matthew 25:31-46

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    What specifically do you find wrong with the Ellifritz body count? How would you improve it? Post a link to your previous analysis?

    For what it's worth Evan Marshall was disappointed that their numbers were not too outstanding on his then favorite caliber, the 41Mag.

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  16. Lt. Donn

    Lt. Donn PSO Survivor. currently in NW Georgia

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    And that statement is such a sad testament...the many fine agents working in the trenches must feel so betrayed and angry at what their agency has allowed to become...
     
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  17. Rellik

    Rellik Kwisatz Haderach in Training

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    Fairbairn talked about 45 failures waaay back in the bad old days.
     
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  18. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Yes, everything fails, but stuck with ball ammo, bigger bullets bigger holes. I would go lead flat point if forced to use solids.
     
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  19. fredj338

    fredj338

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    The HST & RGS non bonded are both pretty reliable in 3.5-4" bbls. When I do carry a 45 it usially has one of those or the 200gr xtp. It doesnt expand a lot but does expand.
     
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  20. RichardB

    RichardB Matthew 25:31-46

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    Fred some of the pretty 45s would choke on that ammo. Need to test commercial hard cast stuff and check out hand loads beforehand.

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