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Lets Get A Definition.....Defined!

Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by Lone Wolf8634, May 21, 2012.

  1. Lone Wolf8634

    Lone Wolf8634 :):

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    Or: You're Making Me Crazy!!!:crazy:

    Atheist: A person who has an ABSENCE of BELIEF that a deity or deities exist.

    Please pay attention to that. Yes I mean you, way in the back of the class shaking your head. You know who you are.:wavey:

    Yousguys back there insist on giving a definition of Atheism that'll allow you to assign us a belief system akin to your own. That just wont do.

    Atheism, in its simplest terms, is the rejection of an unsupported assertion.(Sound familiar? It should.) Atheism is not, no matter how many word games you wanna play, a religion in and of itself. It has no explanation for the universe (that's science), it makes no attempt to explain where life comes from or how it got here (science again) and makes no effort to explain why its all here(That's philosophy, which IMHO, is not science:supergrin:). Atheism has no moral code that all Atheists subscribe to (That's, IMO, genetic, environmental and personal choice) nor does it provide a punishment when one does not adhere to the morals it does not impose.

    " In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a"non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist." We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs." - Sam Harris.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
  2. muscogee

    muscogee

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    Good point. I think most people are aphilatelist but no one uses that as a pejorative.
     

  3. Lone Wolf8634

    Lone Wolf8634 :):

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    I had to look that up!!:rofl::rofl:
     
  4. Woofie

    Woofie Disirregardless CLM

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    Which is partially why I do not consider myself an atheist.
     
  5. muscogee

    muscogee

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    I'm a recovering Christian.
     
  6. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    Main Entry: athe·ism
    Pronunciation: \ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
    Date: 1546
    1 archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
    2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity

    Main Entry: dis·be·lief
    Pronunciation: \ˌdis-bə-ˈlēf\
    Function: noun
    Date: 1672
    : the act of disbelieving : mental rejection of something as untrue



    Main Entry: athe·ist
    Pronunciation: \ˈā-thē-ist\
    Function: noun
    Date: 1551
    : one who believes that there is no deity
    — athe·is·tic \ˌā-thē-ˈis-tik\ or athe·is·ti·cal \ˌā-thē-ˈis-ti-kəl\ adjective
    — athe·is·ti·cal·ly \-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb



    Pretty simple really.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
  7. Woofie

    Woofie Disirregardless CLM

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    I have never been a Christian.
     
  8. void *

    void * Dereference Me!

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    I don't necessarily disagree with this, but it is a fairly fast way to get the idea across that you don't believe in deities, in a society where the majority does. (Most people aren't philatelist or numismatists or astrologers or alchemists, so the assumption is you're not unless you say you are, but within a majority theist society, people will assume you are unless you say you're not, so I can see how having a word for it came about).
     
  9. Lone Wolf8634

    Lone Wolf8634 :):

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    Sorry Doc, but your assertion was soundly rejected by pretty much everyone who identifies as an Atheist here.

    You'll just have to deal with how the Atheists choose to define themselves here.
     
  10. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

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    Count yourself lucky, it only took me 38 years to shed myself of that archaic mythos.

    As for the recurrence of a topic that should have been left for dead (much like jesus), atheist most directly means "not theist". Nothing more. People need to consider the meaning of the "a" prefix in other contexts. For instance, "apathetic" doesn't mean you care just as much, but in the inverse. It means the absence of caring. Apolitical doesn't mean you are opposed to politics, it means you have no political incliniations at all. In much the same way, atheism means you are not theistic in any manner. Yes, some atheists do oppose theism actively (I'll admit to that myself), but that is not inherent in the definition of the term.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
  11. Woofie

    Woofie Disirregardless CLM

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    But to many people it implies "anti-theist" and I find hard to blame them for thinking that sometimes when I read news stories about atheists taking their lack of belief and elevating it to some kind of pseudo religious experience.
     
  12. Woofie

    Woofie Disirregardless CLM

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    Guess since you edited I can reply to the same post again.

    I like to use "moral" as an example. We all have an idea of what a moral person is, whether we agree on specifics is immaterial. An immoral person acts in such a way that is not moral. Then you have an amoral person who acts without any moral compass whatsoever.
     
  13. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

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    The atheists have their misconceptions, just like the misconceptions of the theists you all are so fond of pointing out.

    It is what it is. No hard feelings from me. But atheism, the belief that there is no deity, is a belief, not a passive lack of belief, at least in my own well supported opinion. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion. I think a lack of belief leads one toward agnosticism. A BELIEF that there is no deity leads one to atheism. No evidence leads one to not conclude. Belief leads one to conclude.

    OK, this is a bit simplistic, but I think it is accurate:

    Some dude says there is a god. Respectfully, I see no evidence of that, so I don't know if your god exists. That's agnosticism.

    Some dude says there is a god. I see no evidence of that, so therefore conclude there is no god, so there is no way your god exists, and you are an idiot for thinking there is a god, and for many people on this forum, that is atheism.


    If you have conclusive proof one way or the other, whether a deity or deity's have ever existed, I'd love to see it. Present it here for critical review.

    The fact is, we don't know for sure. Some choose to believe. Some choose to believe deity's have not existed. It's perfectly fine to make that choice. You have every right to believe the way you want to believe. I support you believing in that.

    But you don't get to claim that you are right without this simple agnostic person in Texas pointing out that you have too made a choice in what to believe in, without proof. It is a matter of faith. You are holding to it with ardor.

    The definition fits. Sorry to be the one to point it out. We probably agree on more than we disagree.

    I like my G23 with crimson trace laser grips in a Minotaur MTAC Holster. It's awesomely comfortable. I like Mossberg's in 12 ga with lights attached, extended magazine filled with centurion rounds, and slugs in a sleeve on the stock. I like scary black AR rifles in .308. I hunt. I've killed when I wanted to and when I didn't. I have an affinity for old guns. 150 year old stage coach double barrel guns. 100 year old lever actions. Ruger 10-22's in any flavor. The .17 HMR cartridge. The .308, .270, and .30-06, .380, 9mm, .40, and .45. I have a good time going to the range and shooting with my buddies, their kids and mine. I really like reloading hyper-accurate rifle rounds. I like working up different loads for each rifle and pistol I own. I think outside the box. I'd love to come up with a 12 ga flechette and buckshot round that had awesome range, penetration, and close in ballistic supremacy.

    I'm just this guy. I just see things differently than you. That's all. No hard feelings.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

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    Not really well supported at all. By your logic:

    An apathist still cares very deeply.
    An apoliticist still participates in politics.
    An agnostic still feels they have knowledge.
    An amoralist still has a code of conduct that they live by.

    In no other instance would prefixing a word with "a" (i.e. "not) have the meaning that you are proposing. But hey, you are entitled to your opinion.
     
  15. GAFinch

    GAFinch

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    An agnostic has a personal lack of faith. An atheist has a dogmatic lack of faith that usually compels him to evangelize to others about it.
     
  16. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

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    I would point out that this entire topic on the part of theists is nothing more than an elaborate strawman with the intent of marginalizing atheism by attempting to portray it as just another faction or sect.
     
  17. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

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    Too bad there isn't one more atrollist posting here...

    Randy
     
  18. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

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    I didn't think there was any such thing as an aphilatelist. Blasphemy, I thought!!!

    Turns out a philatelist isn't quite what i thought it was.
    Randy
     
  19. Lone Wolf8634

    Lone Wolf8634 :):

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    Nope, no hard feelings Doc, and I thank you from the bottom of my evil little black Atheist heart for your attempts to define my position for me.:supergrin:

    But.

    This thread was simply trying to state that we don't believe what you say we believe, even though you believe that we believe what you think we believe even when we say we don't believe it.

    If I gotta believe something, I believe I'm gonna quit trying to make you believe that I believe what I say I believe and not what you say I believe.:phew:


    Sorry all. This wasn't an attempt to get the zombie thread from hell reincarnated, although I should of known better.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2012
  20. Lone Wolf8634

    Lone Wolf8634 :):

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl:

    Ok, Something good came from this, I chuckled.:supergrin: