Let's discuss the Minneapolis riots

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by Boo Berry, May 27, 2020.

  1. HalfHazzard

    HalfHazzard Señor Member

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    Essential goods and services.
     
  2. cyberghostx13

    cyberghostx13 USMC "The Few The Proud"

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    I joined the USMC in 1967 at 17 years old, course I had to have my parents co-sign. In Vietnam in late April 1968. I was assigned to Foxtrot Co. 2nd Battalion 26th Regiment 3rd Marine Division. They had left Khe Sahn and the 77 day siege over a month prior to my arrival. We were in the "I Corps" area just under the DMZ. I was a grunt(0311/rifleman) but I also had 3 months of Vietnamese language training at the Defense Language Institiute at the Presideo in Monterey, California.

    I wasn't a police officer, even tho I tried to become an Illinois State Trooper when I got back from Vietnam. I was 5'6" and one had to be 5' 8" to apply. So I comment from a combat warrior but in the bush. Still life-death decisions had to be made very quickly.

    Anyway, I am only commenting on what I think happens to some who manage to get accepted but are not mentally prepared and/or the training might be lacking or not done properly. 99% of Police across the country aren't a problem but there is always a small portion that are. It's that way in all types of working people, all the branches of service included.

    My intention was to simply point out that sometimes the hiring and training could be a problem and certain individuals might not be able to deal with certain high risk situations. Sometimes it can be a daunting task to keep the flow of adreniline under control, a combat working control. So its not just controlling weapons but controlling one's adreniline.

    I am not slamming any group of police officers I am just pointing out potential problems in hiring and training. A perfect human specimen both mentally and physically that is trained wrong or at least not properly could be a problem. Someone might be "Crownied In" or gets a position he/she didn't earn or qualify for.

    I have the utmost respect for police officers and they will always get the benefit of doubt from me. My comments earlier were more general comments, not specific. Sorry for anything I said that may have been mis-spoken or maybe misunderstood. Later.
     
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  3. HalfHazzard

    HalfHazzard Señor Member

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    U of M has cut ties with MPD for additional support services such as football game security, k9 support, etc.
     
  4. nursetim

    nursetim

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    Too democratic (in my best Harvey Corman voice.)
     
  5. HalfHazzard

    HalfHazzard Señor Member

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    Anyone got some good streams to this riot? There’s really nothing good on TV anyway.

    edit: here’s a decent one - multiple live camera feeds -
    View: https://youtu.be/zd80PJi8X7g
     
  6. Teufelhunden71

    Teufelhunden71

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    Taking advantage of someone's death so you can steal a TV. Doesn't get much lower than that.

    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
     
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  7. cyberghostx13

    cyberghostx13 USMC "The Few The Proud"

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    Well that depends on what channels you get, if all you get are ABC, NBC, CBS, then you might as well not have a TV. Right now I'm watching TCM(Turner Classic Movies) and they are having a John Wayne night. "The Horse Soldiers"(On right now) then "The Commancheros" and finally "McClintock" to end the evening on a comedic note. Later.
     
  8. pstmstr

    pstmstr

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    Because looting is a righteous cause to protest a man dying. Like I said, lawless thugs looking for an excuse to act like fools. I’d like to see every store damaged or looted close and let them drive 20 miles to get a gallon of milk.


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  9. HalfHazzard

    HalfHazzard Señor Member

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    They’re making Molotov cocktails from the liquor store they’ve looted.

    I hope they at least swigged some of the liquor before they burn it all up.
     
  10. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    It's not about putting something in a "better light".

    What was the Proximate COD? Did the officer's actions constitute an Immediate COD? Any contributing factors?

    Was the COD the result of positional asphyxia (being kept face down), and/or anoxia directly caused by compression of the vessels in the right side of the subject's neck? Any damage to the C-spine?

    Everyone who sees the video can see what was visible to be seen in the video, but doesn't know what was happening or what ultimately was totally involved in the tragic death of the deceased subject.

    The evidence will have to examined, and perhaps argued, if this case/cases go to trial at some point. Guess we'll find out what there is to be told at that time.

    Anyway, just looking through the simply stated statutory sections for the 3 degrees of murder and the 2 degrees of manslaughter for MN, but obviously without knowing how the state usually charges and prosecutes those statutes, I wonder if the state will decide to bring charges of either 3rd degree murder or 2nd degree manslaughter. (Meaning against the kneeling officer.) Any MN cops want to hazard a guess?

    Any civil rights/civil court action action may have a bit of range, depending on whether federal civil rights violations are alleged, or the family goes after the officer/officers and/or the city (deep pockets) in state court. No idea.

    Questions of policy are likely to be examined, too, by both any defense team (or teams, for different defendants?), as well as by the city (extent of PD liability for training, best practices, etc), and the family's attorney.

    This is all just beginning ...
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
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  11. pstmstr

    pstmstr

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    I hope they burn themselves up. You’d think they need to get home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Oh wait...


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  12. Teufelhunden71

    Teufelhunden71

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    There will be a lot of TVs, cell phones, game systems, etc. listed on Craigslist tomorrow.

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  13. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    So, parallel park your veh next to a sidewalk curb bordering a roadway, with a slight decline from the adjacent lane to the curb, and then notice whether the AC condensation drainage runs directly toward the curb (following the decline) underneath your motor ... or runs back toward the rear of your veh before yielding to gravity and running toward the lower curb only when it reaches the rear wheel. ;)

    Or (hence the probably), maybe that MPD patrol veh does route the AC condensation drain hose back toward the rear wheel? Dunno. They adopted that veh after I retired.
     
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  14. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Anybody knows whether MN has a statutory law that requires peace officers to act to prevent (and then report) any directly observed instances of assault under the color of authority, criminal excessive force, etc?

    If so, if the kneeling cop gets charged, depending on the laws I could see any of the other nearby cops witnessing an outright out-of-policy use-of-force, and/or a criminal use of force, to be sucked into charges of their own.
     
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  15. Wayward Son

    Wayward Son

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    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    Derek Chauvin

    Derek Chauvin

    The white police officer who knelt on George Floyd's neck has already been investigated over three police shootings and a fatal car chase.

    In 2006 Derek Chauvin, 44, was one of six officers connected to the death of Wayne Reyes.

    Reyes, 42 was killed by officers after allegedly pulling a shotgun on the six cops, which included Chauvin.

    Two years later Chauvin was investigated for his role in the 2008 shooting of Ira Latrell Toles during a domestic assault call.

    Toles was wounded after police said he went for an officer's gun and Chauvin shot him.

    And in 2011 23-year-old Leroy Martinez was shot and injured during a chase given by officers including Chauvin.

    Tou Thao

    [​IMG]
    Tou Thao

    Tou Thao, was part of a $25,000 out of court settlement after being sued for using excessive force in 2017.

    A lawsuit obtained by the DailyMail.com shows Thao was sued for using excessive force in arrest where he was accused of punching and kicking a handcuffed suspect 'until his teeth broke'.

    The remaining two officers have been identified as Thomas Lane and J Alexander Kueng.

    Both were reportedly rookie cops who were still in their probationary periods, according to the StarTribune.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...neapolis-second-night-death-George-Floyd.html
     
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  16. MikeG22

    MikeG22 CLM

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    Can we post the full 10 minute video here? If you haven't seen the whole thing, watch it and then come back to comment. I casually heard about it and kinda passed it off as criminal being a criminal probably, but then you watch the full length video of him just sitting there on the guys neck with a couple others also sitting on him till he's out cold/dead and just lying there on the ground for minutes while people say to even check for a pulse and they don't move a muscle. It's pretty damning for someone just laying still. If those cops, or at the very least the one on his neck don't go to prision the riots will truly be something I bet.
     
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  17. napp32

    napp32

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    Sadly, I think that about sums it up. This isn't a case of cops being bad people. Rather, it is a blatant case of bad people being cops.

    If there is any justification whatsoever for what this cop did, I will retract my statement when that justification is revealed.
     
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  18. HalfHazzard

    HalfHazzard Señor Member

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    Uh oh - watching FoxNews - even Sean Hannity and Dan Bongino think the cop went too far.
     
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  19. pblanc

    pblanc

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    In some states paramedics and EMTs are allowed to make a declaration of death. Pronouncement of death is usually done by an MD or DO, an RN (in some states), or a coroner. Many years ago I was a surgery resident on the trauma service of Hennepin County Medical Center (to which this person was taken) and later I was a the medical director of the Emergency Department of a small hospital in Minneapolis (which is now gone). I can tell you with a fair degree of confidence that the only people who would be declared dead by first responders back then would be situations in which the deceased was decapitated, had very obvious rigor mortis, or possibly severe livedo. A clinically dead person in a situation of this type would never have been declared dead outside of a hospital in Minneapolis then, and I am sure that is true now.

    This article in the Minneapolis Star Tribune might shed some light on the actions of the first responders and ER staff at HCMC:

    https://www.startribune.com/first-r...our-to-save-floyd-before-his-death/570806682/

    According to the article, Hennepin County EMS arrived on scene 6 minutes after the distress call, but it is not stated exactly when that distress call was placed. Judging by the length of the video, it does not seem likely that the distress call was placed prior to the individual being handcuffed, proned, and physically restrained.

    The article also states that Floyd was in cardiac arrest upon arrival of EMS and that EMS was largely ignorant of the severity of the situation before they arrived. A team of fire department first responders arrived just after the EMS ambulance left. They had received an initial Code 2 alert to assist EMS on scene which was later updated to a more severe Code 3 status but were told only that the patient had sustained trauma to the mouth before they arrived on scene. Here is the pertinent info taken directly from the encounter report from the firefighters:

    "E17 was started code-two to assist EMS on a call, then updated to code-three. Pre-arrival info stated only that pt had trauma to his mouth. E17 arrived at Cup Foods (38th & Chicago) with multiple squads on scene and small crowd of citizens. As 17s attempted to locate the patient, the crew overheard and was told by several people that the police 'had killed the man.' Bystanders were upset but not unruly. No clear info on pt or location was given by either initial pd officers or bystanders. Crew finally located an officer inside the store who stated HCMC medics had loaded the patient and relocated from the scene. E17 encountered an off-duty firefighter who had witnessed the end of the struggle and witnessed the pt go from struggling to unresponsive on the ground while handcuffed and subdued by PD. Dispatch notified E17 that medics needed Fire code-three, and E17 relocated to 36th & Park Ave.Two crew members got in ambulance. Medics had Lucas device working on an unresponsive, pulseless male. Pt had advanced airway secured; E17 took over ventilations and also assisted medics getting IV and meds prepared. Crew accompanied medics to HCMC STAB room, continuing w/ ministrations. Medics performed pulse checks several times, finding none, and delivered one shock by their monitor. Pt's condition did not change. E17 helped get pt into STAB room, continuing ventilations until relieved by ER staff."


    The Star Tribune article indicates that resuscitative measures were continued on Floyd for nearly an hour after they were initiated en route by EMS and he was pronounced dead approximately 90 minutes after his initial encounter with police. So Floyd was essentially dead on arrival and resuscitative efforts were unsuccessful.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
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  20. mc1911

    mc1911

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    What does rioting solve? Does it just reinforce stereotypes?
     
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