LaserMax good news bad news.

Discussion in 'Sights, Optics and Lasers' started by texas 48, Feb 17, 2010.

  1. texas 48

    texas 48 Gold Member

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    Got my LaserMax for my G20 yesterday. Good news. Installed according to simple instructions.
    Good news. Dot sat right on top of my iron sights in the middle of the sight. Good News. Pushing the slide stop lever to turn them. Without the slide on worked very well once the slide was on the frame found the switch was very stiff and would be a distraction in a SD situation. Checked and rechecked the installation and I did it correctly. Bad news. PM'd lasermax1 here on GT he responded during the night and had already talked to warranty at LM. Good news. Called Bob at LM and he is sending me a new battery cap, slide stop spring and slide stop lever. Good news.
    Bad news is that this all happened right out of the box.
    With holding final opinion until parts arrive and see if situation improves with G20.
    I have 3 CT lasers and all worked great out of the box and have had 1 problem in 2 years and sight was replaced FOC. CT 2/3 the price and Customer Service is as good as LM. Benefit of LM is does not change the grip.
     
  2. RayB

    RayB Retired Member

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    1) You will find that the switch works much easier once the slide is racked and the weapon is armed. Try it!

    Having tried it, if it works like I said, I'd hold off installing the new components until you've range fired the unit. If it works as it should, I'd keep the new parts as spares.

    2) That's par for the course. LaserMax offers great customer service!

    --Ray
     

  3. texas 48

    texas 48 Gold Member

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    Thanks Ray
    I racked several times,disassembled checked my work assembled racked again tried switch again and repeated several times.
    Switch was still stiff, too stiff to be used for SD. A customer should not have to break it in. Bob admitted that the spring or the battery cap may be out of spec. Liked several things about this laser but like I said good news bad news.
    Maybe I just drew the short straw but with a thread here on GT with almost 200 posts many of them stating problems with a 300.00 plus item LM quality control may be a little suspect.
    I spent 7 years in small arms repair in the military and over 20 years in manufacturing management. That is the basis for my conclusions.
    LM customer service is excellent and they have a solid product when it works and I realize that many of the shooters that attempt to install may not be mechanically inclined and cause many of the issues but I think that things should work 1st time.That's why I use Glocks.

    LM attention and response to their customers is the reason I would endorse this product. It has many good features. Jury is out for me and will make my judgement after I get the parts and fire my weapon.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2010
  4. RayB

    RayB Retired Member

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    You're welcome! :wavey:

    1) This has been a common complaint and fix; that's why I thought to try it.

    2) I would agree for the most part.

    3) Agreed. But I've been here since December 2005, and many of those posts were suspect or bogus. I'm sure you know what I mean... :upeyes:

    If you look in the Lounge forum, I seem to be the only GT member that bought a lemon Mazda! :crying:

    4) Understood. You know your stuff! :thumbsup:

    5) Again, I would agree. And you're right about the mechanical inclination thingy... :shakehead:

    6) Fair enough! Let us know how it goes!

    --Ray
     
  5. cooden

    cooden

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    I bought a Lasermax for my G23 and it installed and worked perfectly. Maybe you just happened to get a bad one, but as stated before, the customer service is excellent. The only problem I have is that LM is based in my hometown, Rochester, NY. I had written an e-mail to them suggesting that they give the local people a discount to buy their products--sort of like the hometown people supporting a local company (Kodak used to do it when they were a powerhouse back in the day, so did Xerox if you could get the right person to talk to). The response I got back was that they only had a LEO/MIL discount. I promptly wrote back that I had a bought a LNIB for $215 and that you can find them on Ebay NEW for $275-$280 shipped (which is the cheaper than the LEO discount). I will use their product, but I was a little disappointed by the response. In todays economic times, you would figure you would want your hometown fully supporting your product regardless if you were a LEO/MIL buyer.
     
  6. woggie

    woggie

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    Tagged, looking at LM as well for my G23/G19.
     
  7. texas 48

    texas 48 Gold Member

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    Finally got my Laser max to work... at least work good enough to be reliable still I am unsure if this is the way it should work.

    1) Made sure the slide stop spring as deep as it could possibly go and flexed it several times to "break in"

    2) Took the dremmel out and polished the slide stop lever everywhere with flitz ,except the insulator of the slide stop lever. Can't believe the poor quality of this part. Looks like it was stamped with dull tooling, the tooling marks were very noticeable on all the top and bottom surfaces and deep once polished.

    3) put stainless steel grease on the portion facing the shooter and on the top and bottom of the slide stop lever.

    4) racked the slide about 150 times. More "break in"

    Finally got the switch to slide into the on position without bruising the tip of my finger and will activate smoothly enough that I don't have to preoccupy myself with getting it to turn on.

    It seems that once the pressure of the battery cap and guide rod, when the slide is installed, puts too much pressure on the activation switch to move easily.

    For these reason I would never recommend this laser to anyone.

    I know I am going to get flamed for this but something that costs this much should be flawless out of the box. This unit was the upgraded one for the 1151P-FGR. The QC on this unit was bad. The stamped part they use for the activation switch was no where near the quality of the Glock Original part in terms of finish.

    If LM makes this part in house they need to look at the process, material or if outsourced they have an issue with their supplier.

    It will be interesting to see if the replacement battery cap spring and activation lever will make a difference. Could just be accumulation of tolerances that caused this.

    There are good things about this unit Accuracy and unobtrusiveness. Customer service is outstanding but this is a poor substitute for flawed product. I hope it will stand up under use.
     
  8. RayB

    RayB Retired Member

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    A) It sounds like you've gone ahead and tweaked the problematic components in an effort to get them to work properly. Well enough, that's your prerogative; and I know you're the hands-on type. ;)

    Anyway, the results of your efforts are still less than satisfactory; understood.

    Forgive me, but based on your report, your last statement seems premature. Why not install the replacement components, exactly as directed, and then make a summary judgment? :dunno:


    B) Flame you for a personal experience, and objective observation, and a well-reasoned opinion?

    Like I said, in the Lounge Forum, I seem to be the only GT member that purchased a brand new lemon Mazda Protégé! :crying:

    We once had a new VW Jetta delivered with all four wheels out of alignment! Uber workmanship my azz! :steamed:

    I feel your pain. And I agree that this type of product should be a notch above the ordinary consumer product--as should surgical instruments, pace-makers and parachutes! :whistling:

    But do try the new components before passing summary judgement on the product; then you'll be well qualified to call it like it is!

    I can assure you, my own experience with this product has been good.

    But let me say that we did get a defective LaserMax unit, new out of the box, from MidwayUSA. I returned it at once to the retailer, and the replacement unit has been flawless.

    As with the cars mentioned, lemons do exist... I've seen refurbished CT Grips for sale at MidwayUSA too...

    Try the new components, without any tweaking, and let us know how that goes!

    --Ray
     
  9. texas 48

    texas 48 Gold Member

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    Thanks Ray.

    Well I got the replacement parts in and they were slightly better than the Pre tweaked originals but not much. I noticed that the slide lock lever was .008 narrower than the original. I have a large frame on the G20 and if all activation switches are the same length that could explain a part of the problem. The neither of the activation switches made a "click" sound when activating. Not a huge difference but smaller. Non the less the performance with the new parts were the same as originals.

    I reinstalled my tweaked parts and they are acceptable and I can function with it.

    I believe the problem is 4 fold

    1)the tension put on the slide take down lever when the guide rod and unit are installed results in too much pressure on the slide take down lever and thus higher resistance to the lateral force required to move to activation. The recoil spring weight is 20lbs in LM 1151P-FGR which is higher than other Glocks. Requiring additional effort of the finger.

    2) Due to the larger frame dimension of the G20 compared to other Glock frames the activation lever goes almost inside the frame before the battery cover switch makes contact with the metal of the activation switch to complete the circuit.

    3) I have small to medium hands and don't have the finger strength of a larger primate say a gorilla.

    4) Perhaps my expectations are too high.

    My previous conclusion as stated in my post of 15:52 today stands but slightly altered "I would never recommend this laser to anyone who owns a large frame Glock G20"
     
  10. RayB

    RayB Retired Member

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    Bummer! :frown:

    You know, if you bought the unit NIB, they'd probably exchange the entire gizmo for you--or let you swap it for a LMS-UNI-G. :whistling:

    I really like my LMS-UNI-G (UNI-GREEN)! :supergrin:

    I'd stated on another post, that if I were to set up a trail sidearm, it would be a G20/G29 with a LMS-UNI-G, and a WX150 weapon light!

    Holsters are coming on line for this stuff all the time...

    Given your location, I don't think the higher temperature operating range of the green laser would be an issue for you. :headscratch:

    --Ray
     
  11. texas 48

    texas 48 Gold Member

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    Ray I had the same thought. I not been able to get a look at one except on their web sight. How much do they protrude under the G20 and are they wider than the frame? Right now I can Conceal my G20 in my Smart Carry. Here in Texas it is not easy to dress around a full frame Glock in 100+ weather.

    Thanks
     
  12. RayB

    RayB Retired Member

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    Here's my full size, 2005 G21, with LMS-UNI-G and XTI Procyon, along with Judy's OD G19:

    https://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1185788

    As you can see, the laser unit is well rear of the muzzle.

    Note the KKM .45 - 10 mm Conversion Barrel.

    --Ray
     
  13. SocietiesChild

    SocietiesChild

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    I like this product and got some good input from the posts above...but I was advised...By a local shop....that the LM does not lock the slide back after last round is fired....not a huge deal if it doesnt lock the slide back, just curious if anyone has had issues with it...thanks
     
  14. DeltaNu1142

    DeltaNu1142 Glock talker

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    Not to jack your thread, but IMHO, the CT LG-436 doesn't significantly change grip, although I've heard others suggest that the location of the actuator button doesn't permit as tight a grip on the subcompacts. Bad news on these: 1) the laser is a bit further from the barrel, affecting effective (...) range of alignment with iron sights, and 2) it's tough to find holsters that'll fit with the laser mounted. EDIT: ...and furthermore, 3) this little device won't fit the larger Glocks.

    Good review & feedback on the LM, thanks for sharing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2010
  15. RayB

    RayB Retired Member

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    Our G19 and G21 function, as usual, with the LaserMax guide rod units in place; that is to say, the slides lock open when the last round is fired. ;)

    --Ray
     
  16. RayB

    RayB Retired Member

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    It's a complete hijacking of the thread, but your point is well made! :supergrin:

    I think the CT LG-436 is pretty slick, but it does preclude use of a weapon light on the rail-equipped Glock models. :headscratch:

    CT's DVD feature, Shots In The Dark, is a must-see for anybody questioning the merits of a laser designator. :thumbsup:

    --Ray
     
  17. texas 48

    texas 48 Gold Member

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    Update.
    After much thought and more research I finally got my 1151PFGR to work properly on my G20 and did the Following.
    1) The slide lock spring sat to deep in the frame. Bent the angle slighty up allowing the tip to properluy seat on the slide lock lever. Now I get the tips on the bottom of the slide lock to seat in the indentation of the end of the slide lock spring.
    2) Got out the dremell and using a buffing wheel and some Flitz put a high polish on the slide. Lock being careful too aviod contact on the insulator.
    3) Put steel lubricating grease on all the metal surfaces top and bottom front and back of the slide lock lever keeping it off the insulator.
    Finally works reliably.
    I noticed that LM uses the same slide lock lever for all Glocks and on large frame Glocks the result is less lever on each side making it more difficult to activate on the G20 vs G22. Hope this will help others that may expirience the same issues I encountered. Great addition if you get it to work correctly.