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Landing without a clearance

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Glenairguy, Dec 17, 2004.

  1. Glenairguy

    Glenairguy

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    Does anybody here personally know (not some guy) someone that has been violated with a "landing without a clearance" incident? Does FSDO usually suspend liscenses on a first offense?
     
  2. sopdan

    sopdan

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    Fill out the NASA ASRS form if its not too late, though I'm not positive if it could save you in that situation (or whoever :) )
     

  3. Glenairguy

    Glenairguy

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    Do they take it that seriously on the first offense? Going into an International airport IFR, cleared for approach, switched to the tower but got busy and forgot to check in?
     
  4. sopdan

    sopdan

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    If it was in the last 10 days, you'd best send in a NASA form right away. Not even checking in w/ the tower has the potential for dangerous situations, especially at larger airports. And if they are going to take action, they probably won't let you know while you can still protect yourself with a form.

    If you have the resources, maybe contact an attorney that specializes in aviation. I don't mean to cry wolf, you may have no problems, but its better protect yourself any way possible.
     
  5. Stuckinhell

    Stuckinhell

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    The ASRS form gives you some rights if postmarked within 10 days of an incident. If the incident didn't cause a loss of separation, or worse, you may be able to use the ASRS as defense if the FAA decides to violate you (which they have every right to do, you violated an FAR). I am not sure how much weight the ASRS will hold if there was a loss of separation. The only thing that's in the FARs is the statement that the ASRS form may not be used for criminal or intentional acts.
     
  6. Hank Bodmer

    Hank Bodmer

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    Depends, if you were actual IFR, tower probably would/should have called once you didn't contact them; if they couldn't have got you, approach would have called back. ATC may have bigger problem than you. I'm assuming ATC told you to call after you landed. Your probably OK as long as you didn't try to BS them! Almost without exception, ATC guys are very helpful and have always gone the extra mile for me. However, they have certain rules they have to go by.

    If on a visual, ATC just might be a little more upset but as long as you were on a IFR flight plan, I rather doubt that seperation was lost.

    Good luck and file the NASA form pronto, it never hurts!;c
     
  7. skyboss_4evr

    skyboss_4evr

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    In a situation like this, if ATC doesn't give you the "possible pilot deviation" drill... then they probably figure no harm, no foul and plan to let it go. If the pilot rats himself out on the air, then ATC has no choice but to write it up. Something to keep in mind. I'm speaking from experience and not as a pilot.
     
  8. G36pilot

    G36pilot

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    Below are NASA's Air Safety Report web sites. From the 1st download the form. If you only have Adobe Acrobat Reader (free version), print the form and fill it out with pen, then mail within TEN DAYS of the incident.

    Go to the post office and send registered mail so that you have PROOF OF MAILING with the alloted time. Otherwise you'll have to rely on NASA to return their receipt acknowledgment to you with the envelope postmark.

    This is a highly recommended program. Fill out the form soonest!

    http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/forms/PDF_Files/general.pdf
    http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/
    http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/asrsform.html
     
  9. Texas T

    Texas T TX expatriate CLM

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    AOPA would be a good starting point for that.
     
  10. geoffinak

    geoffinak

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    They will absolutely suspend your ticket for landing with out a clearance. You do not say roughly where this was and how busy the airport is, how many RWYs, IFR, VFR, type of operation, your level of experience, private pilot, or 135 ops. Judging from the anxiety I would guess 135 op.-and wants a career of flying. If your a private or working on your certificate they may not be as harsh. But if working commercially, the will bang your ***.
    As stated most controllers are not looking to get you. However everything they do is on tape and if separation minimums caused a problem with another aircraft, they have no choice. If you were not asked to contact the tower when taxing in, that is a very good sign of no problem, not a guarantee but some relief. You should have a stack of at least 10 of the NASA forms and fill one out anytime you have done anything that could be used against you, even the smallest error. They will not always get you off but just may help.
    The system of appeals and using a lawyer is all against you. A Lawyer may get a reduction of the suspension but will want probably a retainer of $2500.00 to start, if you appeal probably another $2500.00. If you did it there is no defense and unfortunately all violations go into a computer data base so it drags along with you. It's really unfair as no other field requires every 6 months you must perform perfectly. A mistake and you could be out of a job. Doctors get certified and their not retested every 6 months, they make a mistake, who says anything in most cases.
    You might want to contact a Lawyer, if you know someone in ALPA that will help, also AOPA. Discuss what happened, the FAA has a certain time period to contact you about the violation, I believe 30 days but look it up.
    Hate to sound so gloomy but it goes with the life and Runway Incursions is a hot topic and rightfully so. I just think there should be a better way to punish a pilot that will not follow him the rest of his life and will allow him to return after remedial training . Maybe a suspension that makes you lose your present job but not black list you the rest of your life. Every pilot out there has made a mistake that would cost him him or her their ticket, sometime, somewhere. Don't beat yourself up, whatever is going to happen will be. However if a commercial pilot is your goal you will find a place to get back in. Just do not fly for a operation that will get you in worse trouble because of poor maintenance and pushing weather. Get the proper information, see where you stand
    Good Luck let us know how it goes.
    Geoff
     
  11. JonnyB

    JonnyB Millennium Member

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    Geoff:

    They will *not* "absolutely" suspend your ticket.

    My older brother landed on a closed runway (27R, rather than 27L at FCM - Flying Cloud Minneapolis). There was a maintenance crew on the far end of the closed one. He was told to call the tower when he got to the FBO.

    He did, took an ***-chewing, then filled out the NASA form. His pennance? Spend a couple of hours in the tower with the controllers, and a 30-day (I think) probationary period.


    JB