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No surprise to me...1911's aren't the best choice for a general issue weapon, with Kimber's probably being the worst choice.
 

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Why would a dept buy $1000 Kimber 1911's for their officers? Doesnt that seem like a little excessive spending of the tax payers money? I am not a fan of 1911's in general so I am not surprised the dept dropped them.
 

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Why would a dept buy $1000 Kimber 1911's for their officers? Doesnt that seem like a little excessive spending of the tax payers money? I am not a fan of 1911's in general so I am not surprised the dept dropped them.
No.

Equipment costs represent a tiny, tiny, perctentage of a police department's budget.

Whether they buy $550 guns, $750 guns, $1,000 guns, that last 10 years, or more, is a tiny part of their budget.
 

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Methberry PD
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I'll relay my Kimber story again.

Best buddy and I went out to the old strip mines to test out our new guns in October of '03. Mine was a G21C and his was a Kimber somethinrather. Both .45 (obviously), both shooting out of the same batch of ammo (WWB). Mine worked flawlessly. His had a FTE or FTF every other round during the first few mags and every round by the time we put it up. He sold his $900 boat anchor shortly thereafter.
 

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If the picture in the story was the model they bought then I could see why they had failures.

Half our department uses 1911's but they are full size 5 inch barrels (two have kimbers). Most "out of box" 3 inch 1911's have a ton of realiablity issues so you need to spend a lot of time tuning them to work realiably. One department I know up here did issue 3 inch Kimbers and they have nothing but issues. 1911's also need a lot more maintenance and cleaning to run right....
 

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Grape flavored!
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This is just plain old-fashioned corruption.

The Kimbers replaced "worn-out" sigs, purchased in 2005, and the sigs were sold directly to the agents at a steep discount.

The agency is notorious for buying expensive new guns every few years and disposing of the "worn out" hardware in sweetheart deals outside of the required state surplus property competitive bid process.

Two Class III machine guns are "missing" from the state inventory.

The 112 full-time employees have purchased 373 guns (not including the latest batch) since 2003.

This agency has not fired a round in action since 1994, yet has an impressive arsenal of high-dollar weapons -- despite being predominantly a revenue agency that always utilizes local and state police when going on enforcement operation (moonshining).

Good ol' boys and their state-sponsored toys... I'm assuming the Cadillacs for patrol vehicles will be coming soon.
 

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I dont see anything wrong with departments changing out guns frequently. Whats the big deal, we get new cars every 2 years or shortly there after which is almost equal to 45 guns. A gun and a car I would think departments would spend a little time on, after all cops die in car accidents or gun fire, not by a mag pouch failure.
 

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I dont see anything wrong with departments changing out guns frequently. Whats the big deal, we get new cars every 2 years or shortly there after which is almost equal to 45 guns. A gun and a car I would think departments would spend a little time on, after all cops die in car accidents or gun fire, not by a mag pouch failure.
Well for starters, shooting the same weapon over an extended period builds familiarity and good muscle memory. Frequently changing weapons requires you to go back and re-train yourself. I am not saying it can't be done because I will be the first to admit that I have changed weapons now and again, but there is a lot to be said about consistently carrying the same weapon year after year. Ideally, your weapon should be so familiar to you that when you have to engage, you won't think twice about how it points, how the sight line up and how the trigger press is going to go. There is a world of difference between a SIG and a Kimber and let's just say you don't just swap weapons willy nilly and expect you will perform well under stress.
 

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This is just plain old-fashioned corruption.

The Kimbers replaced "worn-out" sigs, purchased in 2005, and the sigs were sold directly to the agents at a steep discount.
This used to be, and still is to some extent, a common practice across the country. When my agency changed from the Beretta 96D and 96G-SDs, the agency offered the weapons to the officers first for a really cheap price.

The agency is notorious for buying expensive new guns every few years and disposing of the "worn out" hardware in sweetheart deals outside of the required state surplus property competitive bid process.
Mostly likey from forfeiture funds, so the cost to tax payers wasn't a factor. The bidding process is required when you use tax payer money to buy something.

Two Class III machine guns are "missing" from the state inventory.
Yeah, that's a big problem....
The 112 full-time employees have purchased 373 guns (not including the latest batch) since 2003.

If they changed weapons three times since 2003, and they purchased 112 guns, each of those three models, that does not sound excessive to me. That also allows for some spares in inventory, and enough to arm the part time agents.

This agency has not fired a round in action since 1994, yet has an impressive arsenal of high-dollar weapons -- despite being predominantly a revenue agency that always utilizes local and state police when going on enforcement operation (moonshining).
It said an agent was shot an killed in 1994, it didn't state that was the agencies last officer involved shooting.

Good ol' boys and their state-sponsored toys... I'm assuming the Cadillacs for patrol vehicles will be coming soon.
Again, we are talking about seized funds. Can that money be better spent? Most likely. But lets not forget the NCHP went through a few duty guns in past years. They carried the Beretta Cougar, Sigs, then currently the M&P, all within a short time frame.
Personally I don't have a problem with buying new equipment with "free money" that was seized, but I do have a problem with not accounted for weapons.
 

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Methberry PD
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Ya, selling surplus pistols to officers is a very common practice. Call it a "perk" and maybe it is, but who better to buy them than the officers that carried them? Now, as far as the price, when ISP surplused their Beretta 96Gs, they sold them for $300 with three mags and a holster to the officers. Not a huge discount if you ask me. I even got one because I wanted an ISP Beretta to match my dad's Beretta.

When the officers retire (from our state agencies) they usually get to keep their duty gun at no cost.
 

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Grape flavored!
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Ya, selling surplus pistols to officers is a very common practice. Call it a "perk" and maybe it is, but who better to buy them than the officers that carried them?
Sure, if the "surplus" process is legitimate and warranted.

Rolling over your entire fleet of service pistols every 3 years or so, and buying high-end custom guns like Kimbers to boot, sounds a whole lot like using a government position for self-dealing.

These guys also have rolled over nearly-new shotguns, assault rifles and other highly-coveted "Gun Guy"-style (expensive) weapons in a very short time, with the same "surplus" process each time. Several pistols have even been "stolen" from ALE agents, and (not surprisingly) those agents are just issued another. (Call your lieutenant some day and tell him your duty sidearm was stolen, and see how long you keep your badge.)

I'm not even sure why a TAX agency, who always takes real LEO on the few moonshine raids they conduct, needs all this firepower anyway. (Does running under-age alcohol sale stings really require a type III weapon? Are there not any other agencies that can help if you ever encounter a situation where you DO need a class III weapon?)

And no, "seizure" money shouldn't be spent any less prudently than "tax" money in my opinion. Dropping 4 year old Sigs, buying Kimbers, and then trading them for new Sigs a year later sounds real imprudent to me.

Add the self-dealing "surplus" process that differs from the state standards for other agencies, or the ridiculous red flag of choosing "Kimber" for a duty weapon, and it smells real bad to me.
 

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ALE agents are real LEOs. When other people do operations in my area, it's nice to know about it. And many times outside agencies will use uniformed LEOs when they do operations so there is always a uniformed presence and the bad guy can't claim "I didn't know they were cops."
 

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Methberry PD
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Sure, if the "surplus" process is legitimate and warranted.

Rolling over your entire fleet of service pistols every 3 years or so, and buying high-end custom guns like Kimbers to boot, sounds a whole lot like using a government position for self-dealing.

These guys also have rolled over nearly-new shotguns, assault rifles and other highly-coveted "Gun Guy"-style (expensive) weapons in a very short time, with the same "surplus" process each time. Several pistols have even been "stolen" from ALE agents, and (not surprisingly) those agents are just issued another. (Call your lieutenant some day and tell him your duty sidearm was stolen, and see how long you keep your badge.)

I'm not even sure why a TAX agency, who always takes real LEO on the few moonshine raids they conduct, needs all this firepower anyway. (Does running under-age alcohol sale stings really require a type III weapon? Are there not any other agencies that can help if you ever encounter a situation where you DO need a class III weapon?)

And no, "seizure" money shouldn't be spent any less prudently than "tax" money in my opinion. Dropping 4 year old Sigs, buying Kimbers, and then trading them for new Sigs a year later sounds real imprudent to me.

Add the self-dealing "surplus" process that differs from the state standards for other agencies, or the ridiculous red flag of choosing "Kimber" for a duty weapon, and it smells real bad to me.
I agree.
 

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I would like to know who made the call to issue 3" 1911's. Sub compact 1911's have a reputation for being troublesome. Their recoil springs only last around 500 rounds. It appears the decision was made based on somebody (i.e. the brass) saying, "hey, these look cool, let buy them!". No testing or research could have been done or it would have been painfully obvious that a 3" 1911 is a horrible choice for a duty pistol.
 

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This is just plain old-fashioned corruption.

The Kimbers replaced "worn-out" sigs, purchased in 2005, and the sigs were sold directly to the agents at a steep discount.

The agency is notorious for buying expensive new guns every few years and disposing of the "worn out" hardware in sweetheart deals outside of the required state surplus property competitive bid process.

Two Class III machine guns are "missing" from the state inventory.

The 112 full-time employees have purchased 373 guns (not including the latest batch) since 2003.

This agency has not fired a round in action since 1994, yet has an impressive arsenal of high-dollar weapons -- despite being predominantly a revenue agency that always utilizes local and state police when going on enforcement operation (moonshining).

Good ol' boys and their state-sponsored toys... I'm assuming the Cadillacs for patrol vehicles will be coming soon.
Your post is the most accurate. The other posts dissing 1911's are from mindless toolbags who don't know a pistol from a popsicle.

Not sure who thought a 3" 1911 would be a good issue weapon, but I think it had more to do with the "cool" factor and collector value than functionality. I suspect that these folks have a long history of playing with their gun fund and suddenly somebody shined some light on them.
 

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Rolling over your entire fleet of service pistols every 3 years or so, and buying high-end custom guns like Kimbers to boot, sounds a whole lot like using a government position for self-dealing.
High-end custom guns like Kimbers?????? Don't take this the wrong way, but you need to get out more.

:wavey:
 
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