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Kabooms

  1. I have a friend who recently experienced a kaboom in his G 21 45 acp Glock. Fortunately he was not hurt; but it did scare him. The cause was a wrongly loaded 45 acp round. Bothered him enough that now he jokingly refers to his Glocks as the Austrian hand grenade.
    Now I have heard of kabooms with 40 caliber Glocks and 45 caliber Glocks; but never with a 9mm Glock 17 or 19. Has anyone heard of a kaboom with a 9mm?
     
  2. I don’t reload and personally would not use any reloaded ammo in my Glocks. There is a well known chamber issue that has been discussed widely.

    I’m sure there are folks who do it well but I just won’t take that chance. I heard about the reload issues before I ever even owned a Glock.
     
  3. It happens, just an occupational risk. Less likely with factory ammo, but it does happen.

    Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk
     
  4. The "well known " issues were with some very early .40 glocks, I have personally seen this, it was fixed long ago, as far as I know Portland Police had a couple with G-21's many years ago that were traced to bad ammo, and no unless someone screws up a reload I don't know of any in a 9mm, I have shot many thousands of reloads through several 9mm glocks without an issue.
     
  5. I don't shoot reloads, and I wear gloves at the range.
     
  6. If you cancel out all of the KB's that involve drunk reloads, or steel cased russian ammo........there's almost none left.

    You want real crazy? 9mm 1911's have a habit of kabooming when you clear them. Round slips off of the poorly tuned extractor, with the primer aimed at the ejector. Boom!

    That's why you see many competition shooters STILL not using modern overhand racking techniques. I overhand, but just a bit slower with 1911's and 2011's.
     
  7. All manufacturers say not to use reloads!
     
  8. This, was with "factory ammo..."

    In 46 years hand loading, and "TONS," of cast lead and other stuff through OEM Glock barrels and all other guns, I have "NOT ONCE," ever, had an issue of a bad kind, other than some little minor thing, with a primer ...

    If hand loads are done carelessly, shame on the hand loader. If done properly, no problems. Glocks, shoot "well put together hand loads," as good as any gun! ;)



    CanyonMan!
    :horse:



    pics 002.jpg pics 008.jpg pics 018.jpg
     
  9. Bad ammo is bad ammo, no matter the source. If you're not smart enough to figure out basic pistol loading, you probably shouldn't be handling guns.
     
  10. Running out of spec ammo through any gun is likely to damage it. The early Glock 40s were known for gratuitous chamber space. Throw in some bad reloads and its a recipe for disaster. Don't overlook setback due to a round being loaded and unloaded a few times.
     
  11. "Wrongly loaded" ammo can blow up ANY firearm. Period.

    In a quick search, I found a G34 and G17 in the first few pages of results, which confirms what I thought; it happens, but it's quite a bit more common in the larger caliber Glocks than in 9mm.
     
  12. What caused that? A double charge?
     
  13. Canyon, excellent KB example. I have witnessed many KBs, 9, 40, and 45 with factory ammo. But no one can call a double without knowing what press they load on, what powder and charge weight, what bullet maker and weight, and what OAL, and what brass. That's all BS from someone who has never re-loaded. The only progressive that can double is a Dillon 550, not looking at turrets or single stage presses. Those are operator screw ups. No other re-loader can run backwards. The index pawl hits the shell plate long before the powder thru die hits the case.
     
  14. I reload 9mm on a Dillion 550 and if there is a double charge you can see with your naked eye. You have to be alert when reloading. It is not something you can do and watch tv; and you have to do a quality check every few rounds. I like Unique - a bit dirty yes but we are old friends.
     
  15. Hey buddy...
    We don't really know for sure. I loaded some of these up in the G3 G20, and bang, next one KABOOM!! leaving my "physical battering out," I sent the gun to WW, (i was using their factory Silver tips in that 10). They contacted me very quickly after they received the bits and pieces of everything. They said their forensic team could in no wise determine what blew that chamber that bad... There was NO brass or anything remaining after the Kaboom, so all they could do was guess. Appears a double charge, or the used barrel I bought from a friend. (very long story man). That is it!

    They took the blame, and bought me a brand new blue label G20SF... Hat is off to WW.

    I rarely buy factor ammo. I rarely bought it 'before' the Kaboom... Ha.
    Rollin my own has been workin perfect for over four decades.... ;)


    Stay safe Amigo!






    CM
    :horse:
     
  16. A lawsuit filed against Glock in Arizona does name the Gen 4 G21's among those that they feel can Kaboom.

    https://www.classaction.org/media/melian-et-al-v-glock-incorporated-et-al.pdf

    This is a class action lawsuit (hey, anybody can sue anybody, it doesn't prove anything!), but it will be interesting to watch unfold. I have a few of the scary Glock kaboom-guns listed, so (like many of us) I could be part of the class (but I won't, I am not a fan of these sorts of lawsuits chipping away at gun companies, and I am perfectly fine with my Glock's).

    But according to this, a Gen 4 G21 is included on the kaboom candidate list. I am just sharing the facts about what has been filed. Bear in mind that this is written by lawyers filing a lawsuit (and trying to get a subsequent financial award).

    From the suit:

    "Each gun contains a feed ramp that is too long and goes into the chamber causing alack of chamber support for the round/casing which causes the force of a fired round to exert unreasonable pressures upon the round/casing in the 6 o’clock position (the “Unsupported Chamber Defect”or “Defect”). This defect creates a “blow out”or a “kaboom”which is a dangerous situation which causes the round/casing to separate and dislodge a piece of the casing at the 6 o’clock position.Upon information and belief, and based on reasonable investigation, these defects will repeatedly and verifiably manifest in the Class Guns." - page 2 of link above

    "The Class Guns include, but are not limited to the following models/series: Model 22, 22 Gen 4, 23, 23 Gen 4, 24, 27, 27 Gen 4, 35, 35 Gen 4, 35 Gen 4 MOS, 22 cut, 22P, 23 cut, 23P,21 Gen 4, 21SF, 30 Gen4, 30s, 30SF, 36, 41 Gen4, 41Gen 4 MOS, 37, 38, 39, 20 Gen4, 20 SF, 29 Gen 4, 29SF, and 40 Gen 4 MOS..." - page ten of link above
     

  17. You have an advantage somewhat on me here, as I have used a single stage RCBS press for 46 years.... I do them one at a time, and NO powder dumper, and an electronic scale. I know it is a snails pace, to those who have progressive equipment, but I can run a hundred in about and hour and a half. I realize some of you guys can do that in a couple minutes. Hats off to y'all. But late at night, or when I have the time, and hour here and there, 'carefully examining each round,' I don't have issues. At the end of the week, with just a little time at night, "that I enjoy," I have 4-500rds, 'quality rounds,' and their 'good to go' outside and have some fun.

    Just never trusted anything but 'me,' and my 'quality inspection/care.... ;)



    Be safe!






    CM
    :horse:
     
  18. I'm a relative newbie handloader - only at it about 25 years, or so. I load primarily on a Dillon 550, but can tell you, maximum number of rounds produced per hour, is NOT something I'm interested in. Not in the least. Recipe for disaster - IMHO.

    That said, to each, his own. A man's gotta know his limitations. I like to think that I know mine, but don't know the next guy's. As such, I don't shoot someone else's hand loads.

    I go slow, & pay attention - start to finish. Don't load when I'm fatigued, distracted, or just not in the mood. Sweatin' the small stuff, seems to pay off.

    Questionable brass goes in the trash. Don't see any reason to push the ragged edge of "performance" either - tight groups at moderate velocity suit me fine.

    Is hand loading for everyone? Not IMO. For some of us though, it is at least HALF the experience of firearm ownership / operation...
     
  19. I recently bought a digital grain scale to replace or supplement my beam scale. After reloading about 100 rounds one at a time on my 450, and inspecting every one after dumping powder, I decided to check the weight of the finished rounds. I first weighed empty cases, and they average about 84g. The bullets weigh very close to 200.1g, and the powder charge is right on 4.6g. That would mean a round should weigh very close to 289g. So if I did double charge, the round should weigh 293.3g, or very close to that. Well, about 15 rounds weighed waaay more than even 293g! I know I DID NOT DOUBLE CHARGE. But just to make sure, I have a bullet puller arriving today.
     
  20. Understand what you are trying to do (good idea), but with pistol ammo, bullet / brass weight variation will make you crazy.

    The main thing is that you know you didn't double charge - because you were paying attention. I'm NOT about to discourage you from double checking your work, but generally, if a guy is paying attention in the first place, & has a brain fart / lapse in attention - he will realize pretty quick that he may have screwed up a few. THAT'S the time to go back & pull bullets. Hopefully at that point, you haven't been throwing your "completed" rounds, into a bin with a couple hundred others - identical in appearance...
     
  21. You know, that REALLY IS a good point - assuming no irregularities (I never say never) in the powder flow.

    Doubt I'll be dumping my ultra versatile 550 any time soon, but THANKS for keeping me on my toes regardless.
     
  22. all semi autos have some degree of barrel ramp, otherwise they wouldn't feed the round.

    [​IMG]
     
  23. I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to duplicate in testing such an incident By intentionally shooting overcharged rounds in various pistols to see the results.But saying glocks kaboom more often is sort of like saying Labrador retrievers bite more people than any other dog breed ( which is actually true- because labs are the most common dog breed!)
    A round that kabooms in a Glock because of improper assembly at the factory or reloading bench would very likely do the same to any other gun it was fired in. A properly assembled reload is perfectly safe in a Glock of course.
    I have even for at least 25 years been using cast bullets also with no problems as well.
    Regarding weighing loaded rounds there is simply too much variation in the weight of brass and bullets to use this as a technique to detect a double charge considering the very small amounts of powder involved.
     
  24. Back in the day I blew up a G20 inadvertently with a double load of VV 3N37 loaded on a Dillon 550. The upper was not damaged - to everyone's surprise. Even the Glock technicians shook their heads in disbelieve. The receiver was split and done of course and my thumb was bruised but not torn up.

    I have seen one or two 9mm Glocks blown up; Hirtenberger ammo was loaded VERY HOT in those days and some wise guys (not me) pushed the envelope by loading even hotter.
     
  25. I separated the suspect rounds, and they are in a plastic bag. Now if my bullet puller, which was supposed to arrive yesterday, ever gets here, I'll check them out.
     
  26. Yes, as I discovered, you are quite right.
     
  27. Mr Glock, what does a double of VV 3N37 look like in a 10mm? It looks like for a 180 grain your starting load is at 6 grains? It didn't spill over the case at 12 grains?
     
  28. "Average" with what spread? Is your brass the same brand, preferably the same lot number?

    I am loading 9mm with mixed brass that can vary in weight by as much as the powder charge, so weighing loaded ammo tells me nothing about powder. I have done it to tell whether an odd round has a 124 or 147 gr bullet, though. (If 124, it gets pulled because I don't load the same style 124 as 147, MY ammo is identifiable by appearance and a 124 that looks like a 147 is somebody else's in range pickup.)
     
  29. The difference in brass weight can be as much as the charge weight. Weighing loaded doesn't work unless you have all the same head stamp. You also have to know what the throw weight variation is for that powder, some are +/- .1 grains, some can be up to +/- .3 grains, and the bullet weight variation.
     
  30. sorry. Deleting. Just saw bullets were silver-tip.
     
  31. I caught your post before you deleted it, and yes, urban myth.
     
  32. Since when do lawyers know anything at all about gun design? Glock will just bring in their proof testing results, along with stress analysis, and illustrate a Glock is no different than any other semi auto, except it has a plastic frame.
     
  33. The weight of brass with different head stamps will vary all over the place. The 84g I mentioned was for the same brand of brass, stamped "WCC." Even with that, there was a lot of variance.

    I have an after-market device on my 440 that dispenses powder with every pull of the lever. That works great as long as nothing interrupts my rhythm. But if I have a primer that doesn't seat properly, and have to replace that case in the turret, a second pull of the lever (to de prime the fresh case) would dispense a double charge to the case that already has powder. I definitely have to keep my wits about me.
     
  34. What's a 440? Never mind, you meant a Dillon 450, yup, manual indexer just like the 550.
     
  35. My recent used reloading equipment purchase (Rock Chucker) included stuff to load 9mm Parabellum. I loaded up ammo in slightly increasing powder charge increments until the G17 cycled reliably. It is still just a little above the starting charge listed in the reloading manuals.
    I use a powder measure in a very consistent manner each with each cartridge, weigh each charge, then eyeball the loaded powder levels of all cartridges as they sit in the tray, then compare each cartridge's charge with the others as I start each bullet. Each cartridge goes through about three windows of scrutiny before a bullet gets started. That's how you avoid a "grenade" situation, I think.