July challenge

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by pgg00, Jul 3, 2020.

  1. sciolist

    sciolist On the Border

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    OK, ya, that takes more time than wide-open.

    I can do the draw at 0.75 prob 10x in a row, then watch me mike it on the drill. So 0.90 would be a good par. I might be able to handle 0.16 splits - that's pretty close distance. So if I could stick a sub-second reload, 2.50 would be the magic number. Would definitely not be able to do it on demand, though. 2.95 would be a more realistic match pace.

    Slide lock is not an issue. It adds no time for me with Glocks, and my Tanfo's auto-forward. In either case, I don't even think about it. And we all know production shooters never go to slide lock... :)
     
  2. -JCN-

    -JCN-

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    Did the auto-forward mod on the slide stop and tried to go faster with the Shadow 2.

    Did a 3.07 and a 3.13 with both being all within a USPSA A-zone but I think that’s about as fast as my vision can run on the circle.

    BE39AD8E-C361-418C-802D-D7A1935FAE5E.jpeg
    FF94885C-882D-4A77-BC1E-600C229FC83B.jpeg

    I did a 2.91 with 5 in the circle and one in the neck but that was without a slide lock reload.


    9463F608-0550-4570-99D8-F73CA29F7315.jpeg 50F416A8-101A-4B62-AD77-1FBEE8755EF9.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020

  3. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Beekeepers can shoot fast!
     
  4. jr24

    jr24

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    Gotta be fast to gun down murder hornets.
     
  5. sciolist

    sciolist On the Border

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    I actually screwed this up. Was doing Steel Challenge stuff, and intended to use a 10" plate at 7.5 yards to get back a bit further, since I'm shooting FMJ. But thinking about the WSB, I grabbed an 8" plate and used that at 7.5 yards.

    So I guess 2.50 is realistically within reach, but 2.75 is a lot safer. Even if comstock, makeups are gonna add up fast.

    Another interesting thing is that flat-out, the hits are not that far out of 8"/6 yard cone. So can see how the whole 'blend of speed and accuracy' thing is false. Practical pistol is a blend of vision and mechanics.

    Any visual or mechanical focus can be either passive or active. Passive vision adds no time to your mechanics. Active vision adds steps (and therefore time) as necessary. Whatever you can't do on pure mechanics has to be made up for with vision.

    If your mechanics are up to snuff, it's probably going to work better to run a simpler process at a lower rate vs. a more complex process at a higher rate. That also ties in to SC. So, IOW, it's better to do it slowly the fast way than fast the slow way.

    And this is why I harp on the distinction between speed and time. You are being judged on points divided by time (or just time). Speed is not even being tabulated. You need to learn to understand how to do things as soon as they are available for you to do. That's an exercise in organizing events in time, not in going fast. With most practical shooting tasks, there isn't enough time to go fast. :)


    View: https://youtu.be/WbvTTKbvk68
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
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  6. -JCN-

    -JCN-

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    OUTSTANDING!! Thanks for the videos!
     
  7. sciolist

    sciolist On the Border

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    No prob, always up for a little egg-heading.

    It's interesting to say some stuff in a thread, then challenge yourself to visualize and play it out. That's really what you're doing in a competitive situation with shooting.

    On a range of relative physicality of activities, I would put practical shooting maybe 1/3 up from the low end. Playing music would be very low, most sports substantially above shooting, then stuff like powerlifting at the top. Most of my sporting experience comes from let's say the upper third of the scale.

    Seems like the more physicality involved, the more gross effort is rewarded. So gross effort is really the death of performance in shooting. You need to be analytical enough on the IQ scale to figure it out, then perceptive enough on the EQ scale to visualize the outcome, but the best performance is going to be when your intent is as low as possible.

    My main goal with shooting to to be able to become completely transparent under any level of stress, and simply allow results to occur. And I think that's extremely challenging.

    Shooting has just enough physicality to lure you into trying. If you want to be any good at it, you need to build reliable mechanics that can produce the necessary results, then be able to stand back and watch them work. The extent to which you can't disengage is the extent to which your capability needs to exceed your target outcome - same as how you need to use vision to make up what you can't do with mechanics.

    I can do the components of this drill at a significantly higher rate than 2.50. I actually shot my first 0.09 splits with the Tanfo messing around with the first string. :) The wide-open reload was no prob at 0.97.

    So... let's say 0.75 draw, 0.10 splits and a 0.98 reload. That's under 2.15. Why can I not do that now? What would it take to declare and execute something like that consistently under max pressure? It's an extremely elegant thing to contemplate.

    Anyone with modest talent and perseverance can build good mechanics. But the really great practical shooters have supreme equanimity. That's what is really being tested at the higher levels.
     
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  8. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Shot with 2 snubbies today.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    This how it works out for me, your mileage may vary.

    The NY reload is similar to a sem-auto reload except that you also have to change hands. Maybe a benefit of two guns (if one breaks, or need to give one to a helper), but no time advantage over a semi-auto reload. I used IWB holsters, a right handed and a left handed. Draw right, shoot right, drop in bucket, draw left, hand over to right, shoot right. 5.53 seconds. These are the splits.
    1.89
    .35
    .35
    2.24
    .35
    .34
    You'll notice my left hand "reload" is slower than my intial right draw and shoot (because it has to hand over to the right).

    I tried but can't do this drill fast enough with a speedloader. The reload puts the shot #4 split around 4.5 seconds, which I cannot overcome.

    I also tried it with a simultaneous draw and shooting. Surprisingly easy enough to do, where the left hand and right hand do everything at the same time, but I only get half the hits on target (the rest are close but not close enough). Total time for that is around 3.5 seconds, but as the saying goes, you can't miss fast enough. Interestingly, the timer only shows 3 shots (because left and right are being shot at the same time).

    What I did not try after simultaneous draw is a right, left, right, left, right, left shooting. I've seen that done in movies but seems unrealistic. The time would be slow as coordination of getting each gun safely aligned and sighted with the eyes, in turns, is difficult, and it is all one handed shooting. Just didn't think I had a chance of making time and accuracy that way. But I should try that type of shooting sometime anyway.

    Two guns is fun to try in these various scenarios :)
     
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  9. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Ok, I went back out to try the simultaneous draw again.

    Alternating the shots right, left, right, left, right, left is slow just as I thought it would be.

    But the better way to do that, I found, is right, right, right, left, left, left. That is almost, but definitely not, as fast as draw right, shoot, shoot, shoot, draw left and hand to right, shoot, shoot, shoot. Close, but I couldn't male the time with it.

    I also tried again the simultaneous draw, shoot right and left at the exact same moment. The speed is there, but to improve accuracy I tried to hold the guns close enough together to get a simultaneous left and right eye front sight picture (instead of just pointing the guns). Did you know if you get the guns too close and tilted that they can recoil into each other?
    :)
     
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  10. Schrag4

    Schrag4

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    I know it’s the last day of the month but I think I will finally get a chance to try this out tonight. I guess with the ammo shortage, there’s less participation. We should keep that in mind for next month, and pick something, like this one, that doesn’t need a lot of ammo.
     
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  11. jr24

    jr24

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    Yeah, my last two range trips I was going to do a few more runs but looked at my ammo stores and have to go on a strict limit of rounds per week if I want to last through to next summer with some breathing room, so I'll likely go back to a single try (or three) of the monthly challenges, it's kinda more fun that way anyhow for me, more of a test of my current level than a factor of practicng the specific drill.
     
  12. ronin.45

    ronin.45

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    I have had so much going on this month, I forgot all about this. I won't be back at a range before tomorrow.
     
  13. Bradley T

    Bradley T

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    I kind of did it with my 17 about an hour ago. This was 5 rounds in 9 seconds from 10 yards: IMG_20200731_142303638.jpg
    I was kind of proud of it.
    Dang it. I was just trying to do something with 20 rounds I had in one magazine, and just shot a couple of strings 10 yds at a medium pace. If I'd have remembered this challenge, I would have done it three times.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
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  14. Schrag4

    Schrag4

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    So, I finally got out to shoot, but not before I did a bunch of weed-eating for my mother, and not before the sun started going down. I usually shoot while wearing my prescription sunglasses, but with the low light I had to just use the clear safety glasses I used for the trimmer.

    I started with the SR9c, which I carry often and usually shoot at IDPA. On the first 3 or 4 attempts, I had 1 or 2 outside the zero zone, doh! Finally, I ended up with this:
    SR9c_Target.jpg
    SR9c_Time.jpg
    I then tried it with my 9e (a budget version of the full-sized SR9), and did this on the first try:
    9e_Target.jpg
    9e_Time.jpg

    Every attempt was 5.xx seconds. I suspect my reloads are costing me some serious time.

    Anyway, this was a fun one, thanks!
     
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  15. pgg00

    pgg00

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    A few more hours on the west coast. Then I'll put up next month's pick
     
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  16. pgg00

    pgg00

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    I put names on the floor. The dog grabbed @-JCN- tag. So he picks
     
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  17. -JCN-

    -JCN-

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