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Discussion in 'The Martial Arts Forum' started by AWMP, Sep 4, 2011.
curious if judo is good for self defense?
quick answer is yes.
most fights end up on the ground and for the most part a lot of grabbing and shoving before you go to the ground. once you have a grasp on your opponent you can throw, control or punish him/her.
judo was born out of Ju Jitsu......there are many joint locking and chocking techniques that can be used either standing or on the ground. if you are defending yourself against one person and you are confident that you have "submission" skills (judo or JuJitsu) then go to the ground and work from there. if you are defending yourself against more than one person... RUN AWAY....or, put your back to a wall, stay off the ground and do the best you can.
With all due respect, it is not the best option.
Take a look; Self Defense Training Methodology
Judo is very useful for self defense as a grappling art. The whole objective of judo is to stay on your feet and put the other person on the ground. Even though I take BJJ I would recommend judo over BJJ for self defense for that reason.
Wrestling is better than both though, especially since judo has come up with more and more rules (prohibiting grabbing the leg, etc).
That being said, I do not feel that judo (or any grappling only art) is the only art you should study for self defense.
a judoka (judo player) plays by the rules when on the mat, in training or competition. In the real world, if a fight broke out the judoka has no rules. Its much easier to control and submit a person while on the ground (if its one on one). I would not hesitate to bring my opponent to the ground....taking away his kicking and striking abilities and work my way to an arm bar or choke. if you dont knock me out with your first punch...its going to the ground. unless you are trained in ground techniques......I'm gunna get you. Also the ground minimizes the body size differences...a little guy with technique can control and submit a much larger person....a simple judo arm bar can turn into a dislocated/damaged elbow.....playing without rules.
I would say some of the mechanics of Judo are good for self defense I used Tai otoshi I modified it when grabbed the guys lapels I head butted him kneed to the groin then went into the move results fight over. I am a big guy he was much bigger.
We have the opportunity to pick and choose different systems here what has worked for me is learning how to box, Thai boxing, BJJ, Japanese Jujitsu, Judo, Wing Chun, Arnis with the exception of BJJ I spent three years with each they all have something to offer next is you have to spare this stuff to make it work.
Learn how to box boxing trains the hands and big guys respect hand speed you will see.
Tai otoshi good judo throw.............but if you're using it in a fight instead of pulling him over your extended leg and rotating him to his back....you do not rotate.......you just pull him over your leg and onto his face. Tai otoshi is a JuJitsu throw....it was "softened up" when it became one of the 65 throws of judo. i'm a little guy and Tai was one of my favorite comp throws, dont need long legs for it.............all i had to do was trap his ankle.
glad to see you're well rounded.
One good thing about Judo is that you'll train "actively" - against resisting opponents.
Under duress you will react the same way you train. This is a well established fact in LEO and SD circles. As I've often stated, "we do not rise to the occassion, we sink to the level of our training".
Dermott 'Pat' O'Neill at one time was the highest ranked non-Japanese Judoka in the world. He, along with Fairbairn, Sykes, Applegate et al created WWII combatives, which is quite probably the most effective, brutal SD system ever developed. When asked why Judo techniques weren't included in the WWII system, O'Neill responded, "Judo is useless in combat unless the enemy is wearing a Gi". Of a note, Fairbairn was also a Judoka having had his cert signed by Jigoro Kano Sensei himself.
This is not to slight Judo or offend any Judoka. But Judo is a sport and was designed to be a sport. I again refer to the link in my first post as it touches on the 'why' of the matter.
Other links that explains this is;
How effective is it...really?
Sure to make some readers angry
An actively resisting opponent (singular). And an opponent that is abiding by the same rule set as you, without a weapon or assistance in a controlled environment. This is different from a determined attacker. Please see the links in my two posts above for a much more indepth explanation.
Do you have a source for these things "Dermott 'Pat' O'Neill" says? Because google only turns up results that you yourself have posted. He sounds like a guy who is experienced, and anyone who says judo is uselsss doesn't know what they're talking about, so it seems contradictory.
Mulitple attackers? It doesn't matter who you are, you better hope that either they're really bad and out of shape or that you can out run them.
Yes sir, O'Neill
The link is just to a summary of the article that appeared in the Journal of Asian Martial Arts circa 2003. You'd have to get a back copy of it to view the article. Equate O'Neill to Rambo and you'd have a pretty clear picture of his abilities. In training, he had people come at him full speed with real knives. And if they didn't fully commit to the attack....well, let's just say he educated them.
The point isn't that a particular Judo technique is useless in a SD situation. It is the way the technique is trained i.e. typical Judo school which concentrates on sport competition. Same can be said for Taekwondo, Karate or any other art's techniques. Again, the technique(s) in and of themselves are not the issue, but the methodology that teaches them. If one can divorce the sport mindset that is in the majority of Judo schools, and train the technique(s) in a pure SD methodology then it becomes effective.
In otherwords, don't rely on the Gi. Don't look to 'control' the person (unless appropriate to the situation and can be safety done). Train outside. Train on stairs. Train in an elevator. Train in a car seat. Train on the ground. Train against multiple opponents (which isn't difficult and can actually make the fight easier if properly done). Judo techniques to not cover the full range of SD situations, but 'can' be effective on a limited basis in some situations 'if' trained correctly.
It isn't just about techniques. It's about having an excellent base, good balance, and being in shape. All those help in a self defense situation by keeping you off the ground.
I'll say it before and I'll say it again, any art that doesn't involve sparring at 100% speed isn't worth doing. Things like Judo, BJJ, MMA, boxing, etc are sports yes, but they compete at the same speed and strength one would find in a real fight.
From easily taking on multiple attackers to sparring with real blades, the whole things reeks of BS. I'm not going to base my training off someone who tells me that I can take multiple assailants, regardless of training. Let's get back to reality.
One can either base their SD training on those that have real world experience, or those that teach theory. Many SD instructors and practitioners have trained successfully against multiple opponents and using things other than rubber knives. If one wishes to train SD, then seek out someone that actually knows SD. Same for sport. They are not one-in-the-same.
In regards to real blades, it is a historical fact that O'Neill and Fairbairn (and others) used them in training. For myself, I have as also as well as with AK47's (unloaded and from the perspective of using the AK as a physical weapon, same thing with an unloaded/empty/damaged handgun in SD).
I'm routinely outnumbered on-duty and have been against multiple attackers and successfully defended myself and won the altercation. It is proper tactics, strategy and technique. Many people have. Sport methodology does not cover any of this so it is natural that someone training under that mindset would be unfamiliar with this training.
All I can say, once again, if you want SD training then listen to someone that does it/has done it in a real world setting and can teach it effectively. That is getting training from someone with experience and not theory.
It is what it is
I did Judo in college. For me, on the street I see it as good defensive techniques, for use when the threat level is low (eg dealing with a drunk) and you don't really want to create a long lasting injury. On the other hand, if I need to take it to them and go on the offensive....then boxing is the only way to go.
Pretty much. Some type of legitimate striking for keeping them at length and some type of legitimate grappling to keep you off the ground or to help you get up/dominate them if you happen to get taken there. This coupled with situational awareness and common sense and you should be able to escape 99% of encounters.
Judo may not be the "ultimate" martial art, but at least they train at full speed. There's not much "grab my wrist" action going on
Accept for 'REX KWON DO'!
"Break the wrist, walk away"
Why is boxing the only way to go? What is wrong Muay Thai or Savate?
This may, or may not, influence your question.