Job layoffs, is this the new norm?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by bush pilot, Mar 7, 2014.

  1. bush pilot

    bush pilot

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    In the past 2 months I've had 4 friends get laid off (fired) Each one of them is between 55-60 years old, made 6 figure incomes and had between 25-30 years at their respective companies. Is this getting to be the new "norm"?

    To add, 3 of the 4 are up to their eyeballs in debt with no savings. I don't get it, you made good money and you don't apply it to paying off your house, paying your credit cards down and put some away for a rainy day? BTW, the 3 mentioned have new pick-ups, boats, 4 wheelers and 2 have motorhomes. What were they thinking? The one upside is 3 of their wives still work so there is at least a few dollars coming in. I don't get it
     
  2. JuneyBooney

    JuneyBooney

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    That is the new "American Dream".
     

  3. hkg3

    hkg3 Beer Geek

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    The new coporate model appears to be layoffs and outsourcing in 5 year cycles.

    I cannot understand not controlling my expenses and eliminating my debts when I have the opportunity. I guess it truely helps that I was brought up to never spend money I did not have and to carfully consider if I can afford to buy something that is not essential.

    I would rather live comfortably without the stress of debt hanging of over my head than like a King only to have it come crashing down later due to a layoff that leaves me in debt where I could loose everything.

    Just my $0.02,

    Mike
     
  4. kahrcarrier

    kahrcarrier FAHRENHEIT

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    Some baby boomers thought they were going to be young and hip in demand forever.

    Then they weren't.........
     
  5. Powder

    Powder

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    That happened to my dad about 3 years ago at Verizon, now his job is being done in India. Was there for 18 years and looking towards retirement.............
     
  6. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan NRA Life Member.

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    That's easy. 30 years ago when it was "just" a factory working looking a good job, even better when a UNION worker was laid off, those guys didn't care a bit. In fact it was "even good for America". "Those guys should have got an education and made themselves valuable like me." Guess what, when your country just shuffles papers instead of making something useful, they don't need YOU either.

    Now they are seeing the truth in that from doctors to dentist and managers.
     
  7. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA Get off my lawn

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    Big companies do a lot of weeding out of older employees in the last decade or two.

    Shame on your friends for not being better off financially. 25-30 years with the same employer and over 55??? Seems they better be READY for retirement at that point. We are talking old-school - back when pension plans were king and the company kindly and gently encouraged you to join the 401k plan.

    Honestly - if you were the company owner, would you want a 60 yr old guy with 30 years on the job or a 30 yr old with 5 years experience? Sure, the old guy knows stuff, but at the rate that technology is changing, it just doesn't make sense to keep the old guy around. He's GOING to get in the way trying to solve today's problem with 1980's methodology. Think of him like Queeg and "the strawberries" in The Caine Mutiny.
     
  8. selogic

    selogic

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    The company I work for is going through a big shakeup . They call it " Human Capitol Management " . A number of people were sent packing and others were transferred to different positions . It's not over with yet . My position is secure though , our group is understaffed .
     
  9. RenoF250

    RenoF250

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    I have not seen layoffs of that age group but they are not getting hired either. For engineers age does not seem to matter, most of the older ones are managers and still seemed to be valued by the company as long as they are good.

    I do not understand the debt either. I put max in 401k and always have, only owe on my house and have it on a 10 year loan. I do not have a motorhome or a boat though and we are pretty conservative on vacations.

    The thing that bothers me is I am really begining to think this planning will be rewarded with a severe tax on the 401k and any other taxes they can come up with to level the field. After all, I did not earn that.
     
  10. VA27

    VA27

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    My dad got caught up in all this...back in the 60's! Radio tube plant he worked at changed states. He moves with 'em. A few years later they get bought up. New company closes old plant, lays EVERYBODY off and builds new plant in another state and hires all new, cheaper folks. He goes to TI building chips (gotta change with the times). Vietnam winds down and bang! layoffs. He started his own remodeling business. Got an offer from Mobil to be maintenance chief at a new plastics plant in the town where all this started! I don't think he was out of work more than a week at a time during all this. If you wanna work, you'll have a job. He's 89 and been comfortably retired for over 20 years.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  11. OGW

    OGW SAF

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    There's the essence of the whole deal. How old do you have to be before realizing that you're responsible for your own financial well being and that schitt happens, be it employment, medical, accidents, whatever? Go into a fight leading with your jaw and you're going down fast.
     
  12. itstime

    itstime

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    Change is the term for this. Yes I see it all the time. Replacements are cheaper. Just not good in the long run.

    I was just talking to my old boss. After Ives 30 he was let go. Cheaper person replaced him. A friend forwarded him internal number yesterday and they are way down.

    The cost of having one person doesn't overcome the outcome the company is seeing. I don't get it. Not at all.
     
  13. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Cosmopolitan Bias

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    Perfect time to start his own business
     
  14. JMS

    JMS 02

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    Very common mentality, i.e. not planning for a rainy day. My mentality is that every day is potentially rainy and you plan accordingly though you hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

    The problem with paying off the mortgage is that most people feel they 'deserve' a bigger house as their income goes up. The average person making $500k a year couldn't imagine living in a $350k townhome, whereas I would pay it off as quickly as possible and have a guaranteed roof over my head, no matter what the future brought. Everyone always has their eye on bigger and 'better.'

    In addition, speaking for myself, I only take on 1 debt at a time (at 0% interest). Once that's paid off I then move on to another. At times I choose to have none. I want a surround system for the basement, but I don't have the time to do the research into the different brands out there and am not one that makes impulse buys. Yes, I'd like to have it now, but it's not critical. The money is sitting many times over in the bank but when I decide to spend the $1000 or $2000 on the system, I will apply for a 0% credit card and divide the total amount over 18 payments, only to close the card when done and repeat in the future.
     
  15. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    It depends--what did they do? Were they good at their jobs? Were they adding value? Were they adding more value than someone else who could get hired into the same job at lower pay?

    Companies don't fire people for fun. They do it because someone, somewhere, thinks that person isn't pulling their weight. Yes, I've seen cases where talent that should be retained gets let go, but I've seen far far more cases where people with 25 or 30 years on the job thought their experience was worth far, far more than it actually was.
     
  16. WT

    WT Millennium Member

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    I worked for a very large company. Its policy was to lay off 95% of the employees once they reached the age of 52. Give them 1 year's severance and kick them out the door.

    The company used to lay off PhD researchers at age 40. By that time they were useless with no new ideas.

    The engineering department experienced a 10%-20% turnover each year. Considering that 40% of engineering work is wasted we outsourced a lot of design and drafting work to China and India.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  17. CAcop

    CAcop

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    White collar layoffs are going to be the next wave in business. What can be outsourced will be outsourced.

    Then there is the fact they are older. They probably ask and get more money than the new kid. Sooner or later the company realizes the old guy is doing the same work as the new kid for more money.

    At 55-60 you should be close to paying off a house or downsizing because the kids are gone. By then your big expense, if you did it, would be paying off your kids' education. If you made them figure it out on their own you should be living on easy street. Even if the wife and I used an RV enough to justify the cost I wouldn't be picking one up unless I downsized on the house or have way more than enough income to cover it. Boats are a money pit. My parents had one when I was a kid and while fun there is a lot of cost associated with it. They could afford it because they bought a smaller house in a nice but not the "premier" neighborhood in town. And that was with a 1982 11% home loan.
     
  18. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    I never understood why a company fires someone just because they are older. I always wanted to hire the person that was 50-55 (I was between 30 & 45 when I was doing most of the hiring).

    Not saying getting rid of the old folks never happens - because I am sure it does - but maybe not as often as we think.

    It could be just like the - I can't get a job because I am over qualified.

    I bet a lot of times the person being let go is a poor performer with a history of incompetence - and rather than tell everyone - I got canned because I am just not very good at the job - they instead say it is because I was old.

    People rationalize things - and maybe even believe them - so they don't have to face the harsh facts that they are a worthless employee.

    :dunno:
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  19. njl

    njl Crusty Member

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    This is worse than not planning for a rainy day (that might never come). It sounds like these guys overspent and totally failed to save for retirement which was coming soon (maybe sooner than expected).

    Some people, it doesn't matter what their income is, they spend it all. Other can save $ while making peanuts.



    Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
     
  20. Haldor

    Haldor Formerly retired EE.

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    I drive a 2010 Toyota RAV4 and my wife drives a 2007 Mazda Miata. We have no other power toys (boats, RV, etc). My daughter is going to get my Toyota in 14 months (when she turns 16) and I am going to get an old Toyota Pickup.

    I retired last year at the age of 55. We bought our new house in Chandler for cash (no mortgage). I plan on getting a masters degree and teaching, but that is really for sanity reasons not financial. My wife is considerably younger than I am and is still working. She was out of the workforce for 12 years being a stay at home mom, while our kids were growing up. She reentered the workforce once our youngest hit 8.

    We have always lived in a lot less house than we could have purchased (according to the bank). We have always lived on less than I made (my wife's income once she went back to work was essentially saved). I never saw the equity in my houses as a source of fun money. We also have 2 years expenses in liquid assets (not counting our retirement savings).

    You make choices in your life and these choices have consequences. My wife and I were in complete agreement on what was important to us.

    • Her being a stay at home mom
    • Not being in debt
    • Having emergency savings
    • Saving for our kids college
    • Saving for our retirement

    Taking expensive vacations, having new cars every couple of years and having lots of toys never made that list.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014