Jeppesen sued by ACLU

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by kengps, Jun 1, 2007.

  1. kengps

    kengps

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    Did anybody else see this? They are being sued by ACLU for facilitating "Torture flights" by the CIA when they moved terror suspects around Europe. They abbetted the CIA by arranging flight planning routes and clearances, etc. What next....suing the fueling company for putting the fuel in the airplanes? Give me a break.
     
  2. New

    New

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    It is BS. But they would sue for right of privacy if the Gov. had to disclose the business of the trip intended. You can't win for loosing with the ACLU.
     

  3. Beeg

    Beeg

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    There's an organization called the ACLJ that does battle with the ACLU pretty regular. And they win. One of the few organizations worthy of donations.

    Do you have a link to the story?
     
  4. kengps

    kengps

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    No I don't. But if you Google "ACLU Jeppesen" you will find it. I seen it on Google news yesterday.
     
  5. geoffinak

    geoffinak

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    Well maybe we should not be doing torture flights, with the EX CIA now HSS.
    It just might make people think, should we be doing this kind of thing, is this what we owe China 3 Trillion dollars for. Maybe you agree with it, I don't know.

    However like most things, that are being taken away in the name of terror, so is our perceived nation of being a just a righteous people.

    While I do not agree with the ACLU all the times, it is healthy in a free society to have discourse over what is right and what is wrong. This is what keeps us free and keeps things in the light of day. Not hidden in the shadows.

    I don't believe most Americans could personally carry out torture, it's not what I was brought up to be and not what I was taught by my father a WW 2 veteran with 8 silver stars 4 bronze and 2 letters of commendation and the Purple Heart for the ETO

    It's odd, the old men cry for the terror they have been through in the war and embrace their enemy's 40 years later. It seems the ones who never really served, send the young to far off places to die.


    President Bush never spent a day in danger, yet 3500 americans have died. His father when asked why did you not go to Baghdad and get Saddam then.
    He replied " Saddam is not worth 1 american soldiers life. That is why you do not see him on TV interviews anymore. That was hero, who understood, life and death and that war was only used as a last resort.

    Just dropped by
    Geoff
     
  6. XDHSr

    XDHSr

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    It's never that simple.

    Not doing torture flights? Whatever. The ACLU and anyone else that doesn't like how things are should take on the POLITICIANS not Boeing. People whine and complain all the time about the government, but they seem to forget that every single one of those clowns was put in office by voters. If we don't like it, then we need to get enough like minded people involved to change it. That's the problem, no matter what side of the argument you are on; there are a million opinions and it is hard to get enough people motivated to make a change. We end up with a government "by default" and it is our own doing.

    As for the ACLU, I don't feel they embody a healthy discourse. They spend too much time fighting for stupid liberal causes that few people really care (like not saying "Christmas vacation" on school calendars) or barking up the wrong tree (sueing Boeing instead of the government), etc. There are many other organizations that are better at keeping things out of the shadows than the ACLU.

    Oh, and the comments about President Bush never spending a day in danger are ture, but trite and somewhat childish. Neither did Roosevelt or Truman as far as I know. I believe Lincoln was in the Army as a young man, but not in combat. So forget that line, it can be said of many presidents. If you don't like Bush forget the "he never spent a day in danger" line and if you disagree with him, just say he is stupid or wrong or an idiot.
     
  7. New

    New

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    I don't think that there was a draft when Lincoln Truman and Roosevelt were young lads. Not to mention, history tells us they took great value in American life. It seems, at least all the evidence so far, that the Bush administration had been set on war in the very beginning. Manipulated or lied about information to stop the diplomatic process, and go right to invading another country. Sacrificing not only American life, but many more innocent Iraqis.

    But, the ACLU is going about this the wrong way, much like a lot they do. Do they really think that the CIA told Jeppesen what they were doing? Come on now. I do not support the torture, and I believe that it is against the core values of what America was born on. It is a shame to see this happen, and to go as far as changing the Geneva Convention to justify the administrations actions is criminal in, a legal way. We no longer have the moral high ground, and to have a similar reputation as a third world country when it comes to the treatment of people in war time, puts our troops and our reputation at great risk.

    Remember when Iraqi solders surrender during the Golf war, they claimed the treatment was better in American custody, than serving in the Iraq army. You think they may have changed their mind?
     
  8. c6601a

    c6601a

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    They tried and the government blocked them citing national security. This is an end run around the laws, no different than suing the tobaco companies, gun manufacturers or McDonalds, when what you are really after is to get the government to change the laws.
     
  9. geoffinak

    geoffinak

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    Well your absolutely right on most things, especially that it is the politicians. I don't care from which side they are from, their all corrupt. However they are placed there by Boeing, by the oil companies and the drug companies. The soft money to the party. Plus we have lost so much already. Seriously I doubt we will get it back.

    I think each candidate should be limited to directly what money he can raise. The soft money is what pollutes. More real debates, every week. Plus a page and half of what their policy will be, every week and access to the real people to ask questions in the debates. A voting system that assures fair voting and that each one counts.

    Our system is corrupt as I said personally I think we have lost already and very few would have the balls to to say know when a squad rolls up and guys with M-16s want your carry guns and all other weapons of political destruction.

    Truman did fight in WW 1 as a Captain. saw action and was decorated. As did JFK, as did Eisenhower as did TR. Lincoln, I am not sure, he certainly saw the carnage at his front door as field hospitals were set up close to the White House. From my readings and just my perception Lincoln only suffered the most of any President over the grievous loss of blood. Clinton did not go to war however in the 20th century, he had the lowest loss of life in the military then any President. People say he dodged the draft, he admitted he was against the war. Dubya made excuses.


    My point about Dad and Son was not childish. I believe WW 2 had to be fought. We do not need to be spilling blood for oil. Dad saw the futility and carnage of going into Iraq. From experience in war. An area that had 7 major religious sects, gosh knows how many sub sects and that we would be there forever. 50% of the Iraqi men are under 14. Just like Viet Nam, an invading force can not win. So Dad knew the realities of war, the little punk kid, just laughs that smart aleck bar 7&7 with a straw on the side for the sugar please.

    Then dumps not only our young but guys 50 years old. Geez, I think 35 was the cut off in WW 2 We are getting desperate as Germany did. I am tired of americans coming home dead. I lost 7 childhood friends, at 17, 18, 19 years old in Nam. Do we ever learn.

    I will repeat what W Senior said. Going to get Saddam is not worth one american soldiers life. You never see him again. Except with Bill on PSA's No interviews in the last 6 years after that statement.

    We may disagree here, but that's ok. The ACLU stumbles on it's nose sometimes, but I still think it brings out a healthy discourse on whatever their doing. It's not always the action that their fighting but the principal behind the action.

    Good thoughts, I should have nailed all of them, your right. I just hate the thought of mass torture and for what really. In 20 years we will be sitting on the banks getting radiation burn by the river in Baghdad, from the depleted uranium rounds used. We are Americans, were supposed to be better then that, I cringe at the thought of having what we hold in such disdain of what others have done to our military, we now do the same thing. We are a better people then that. We have enough to account for, we must lead the world or we will not exist. Torturing people is not the way to get respect.

    That could be their strategy in a few years that will be kicking in. Not many Gulf war syndrome suffers left. Radiation kills quicker then Agent Orange.
    My apologies to anyone still suffering, it is a general view. We can not even take care of our wounded which is a factor of 10 killed. Then comes the physiological impact when you get older. Listen to the old guard.

    Some good points thanks
    Geoff