[-JCN-]

I’m a fan of guns. I like all kinds. I have a number of small 380s and 9mms that I enjoy.

I have to stress, everyone is different and this is my opinion. You are welcome to yours.

Many opinions already voiced here:
https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/my-thoughts-on-the-sig-p365.1691157/

Clockwise: Shield 9, PM9, Micro 9, P938, Boberg XR9S, LC9S, G43.

Center: P365.

All firearms pictured have 7+1 capacity as shown except for the P365. The G43 has the Magguts +1 to make the 7+1 capacity.

MY WORKING OPINIONS ON SMALL CCW SINGLE STACKS:

1. If you are LEO or in a bad area, carry a compact or full size double stack like a G19 or 17.
2. As a civilian not living in a city, my personal minimum comfort capacity is 8 rounds. That gives me four pairs of shots.
3. As such, my CCW firearm doesn’t have to be a battle firearm able to be run in mud and dirt with one handed tactical racking, etc. If you’re in that situation or have that preference, get a G19/17.
4. I want it my carry gun to be 100% reliable IN THE TYPES OF SITUATIONS I WILL REASONABLY ENCOUNTER, but it doesn’t have to be Toyota Camry durable. It doesn’t have to run 10,000 rounds without cleaning. Get a G19/17 (or 19X!) if you want something that can do that.
5. I don’t judge a firearm’s reliability negatively in the first 500 rounds. I had a LOT of problems with my G42, especially with weak target ammo in the beginning. But it’s been perfect after break in.
6. I am only interested in testing the small single stacks with the kinds of ammo I would carry in them. I don’t care if they fail with weaker ammo if they’re 100% perfect with the ammo I will carry. The narrower the niche of gun, the narrower the design tolerances. Again, you want something that’s going to eat everything? Stick with something proven like a G19.

Got it? That’s my perspective going into these tests.

Starting off, there have been reports of the grease contributing to failure to go into battery. Maybe compounded by weak, light target ammo.

My working parameters were to inspect the gun and see if the grease could reasonably account for the issues....

Holy crap. The thing was slathered in what looks like white lithium grease. Nobody in their right mind would run a gun in that condition. Remember, this is not a “combat” gun.

So I wiped out the grease and used a light coat of oil. I purposely went to the range today because of the temperatures.

I previously had a failure to return to battery in a range only Kimber Micro 9 that I hadn’t ever cleaned in 4 degree weather. That cleared up after I cleaned and oiled it. It doesn’t bother me if there’s a correctable reason for it.

I also only tested 147gr, because that’s the only thing I shoot in my Micro single stacks.

I tested 147 gr Speer Lawman, 147 gr Speer Gold Dot, 147 gr Federal HST +P.

The P365 ran flawlessly. Points intuitively and is very accurate. Nice, crisp trigger that feels like a good Shield trigger (without a dongle), gun feels like a PM9 in the hand but without the long trigger pull.

It’s very good. It’s as good as anything else in the segment.

The question is whether those 3 extra rounds that the P365 carries is worth it to you.

CONCLUSION:
The P365 is very good. It points and shoots very well. It is at least as good as anything else in the segment.

Is it a G43 killer? Not necessarily. I think preferences will guide the nuances of people’s selections. I shot some of my other single stacks and I enjoyed them all. Except that dang PM9. That trigger gives me fits.

Is it good? Yes. Is it reliable? Yes, in my hands shooting good 147 gr ammo after cleaning out the grease, even in 11 degree weather.

EDIT: I shot about 100 rounds out of the P365 and it ran 100%.

EDIT: 2/5: 250 total rounds before cleaning and still ran 100%. Keeping an eye on the barrel hood to slide contact.

EDIT: 2/7: 350 total rounds (100 since last cleaning). Still ran 100%. No failures even with one handed, two finger only grip (see video). Barrel hood does not look any more dinged than before. More concerned with wear on barrel lug.

EDIT: 2/13: 600 total rounds (250 today). Experimented with weaker and lighter ammo. 124gr Winchester, 115 gr Winchester, 80 gr Fort Scott, 65 gr Xtreme Defender and to show how tolerant the gun is in returning to battery... 380 ACP Gold Dots. It ate them all without a single hiccup or malfunction. Still 100% through 600 rounds. The peening and wear seem to have smoothed out and stabilized as well!

EDIT: 2/15: 800 total rounds (200 today). Three boxes of 115gr Winchester, one box of 147gr Lawman and a magazine of 147gr Gold Dots. Still flawless and peening remains stable.

EDIT: 2/18: 1000 total rounds (200 today). FIRST FAILURE. Mid-magazine rapid fire string, FTF. Off-center primer strike, but slide did seem fully in battery. Cartridge removed and did fire properly when loaded into a G26.

EDIT: 2/24: 1200 total rounds (200 today). 100 rounds of 115gr and 100 rounds of 147gr. No failures. Worked great. Tested the new X-Ray sights and the 12 round magazine. Note: two of the other guns I shot with the 115gr (Glock 19x and Kimber Micro 9) both had FTEs today, but the P365 was flawless. I think that ammunition might be inconsistent. I have not had any failures with any Speer product, just the light Winchester which seems to also have issues with other "dependable" firearms.

EDIT: 2/25: another 150 rounds of 115gr without any issue. 1350 total rounds. Getting comfortable with the “combat” sighting and 12 round magazine.

EDIT: 3/4: another 100 rounds. No problems. I think I’m more accurate with the 10 round magazine than the 12 round as I tend to pull down on teeny micro pistols with extended grips.

EDIT: 3/6: Got my second P365 with the updated parts. Comparison pics posted.

 

[Dave Lively]

Good to hear it worked well for you. How many rounds did you put through it? If it was an outdoor range and 11 degrees I would be good for 20 rounds. Assuming I had both magazines loaded before I got there.

I buy 147 grain Speer Lawman by the case for range use and use it in all my 9mms. It shoots well in all of them. Speer seems to load their FMJ a little hotter than others so if the P365 does not like weak ammo Speer is a good choice. I am going to wait for more data but have not given up on the P365.

 

[Appalachian Ron]

Nice write up. Looking forward to trying this gun. Could be the wife's next gun.

 

[TeaDub]

Thanks for the write up. It's good to read of personal experiences with a new and innovative firearm.

 

[B C]

All that grease...crazy.

Thanks for the review!

 

[-JCN-]

Supplemental information:

The P365 fits in my Alien Gear Micro 9 holster.

Fits in my G42 Bladetech

Fits in my G42 pocket holster

Fits in my PM9 holster

Velocities with 147 gr +P HST:

Sig P365 (3” barrel)

Kahr PM9 (also 3” barrel)

G43 (3.4” barrel)

Kimber M9 (3.1” barrel)

Easily hitting targets with the P365 and M9 rapid fire.

For comparison, velocity of the G19X with 4” barrel.

Each 0.1” increase in barrel length gives an extra 10-20 fps with the ammo tested.

But all decent velocities with the 147 gr +P HST. If anyone wants to see the normal pressure velocities, I chronographed them too.

I didn’t find the recoil unpleasant in any of the guns. There’s a little less with the normal pressure as expected. But I’ll continue to carry the +P.

 

[Borg Warner]

ergonomics? Pointability? Accuracy? Can you shoot it as accurately as the 43? I've really been looking forward to this review primarily because of the reliability question but I'd be curious how you rate it for "Shootability" and of all those guns which do you find to be the most accurate in your hands?

Thank you for doing this.

 

[WeeWilly]

Great write up.

Thank you very much, holster information very helpful as well!

OK, I am back in! :cheers:

 

[DonGlock26]

Nice pics and review. Some width comparison pics between the P365 and the PM9 would be appreciated.

 

[G26S239]

I like the details in your report JCN. That picture of all your subcompacts really gives a good size reference. :thumbsup:

 

[Jeff S.]

But all decent velocities with the 147 gr +P HST. If anyone wants to see the normal pressure velocities, I chronographed them too.

Yes please!

 

[tic-tok-GLOCK]

Yes please!

Yes, a few more velocities if you would please . Particulary the Ruger LC9S. I’m surprised you got over 1000fps with 3’’ inch guns.

I also use 147 HST’s as my carry ammo, so this is all very interesting. Thanks -JCN-

 

[-JCN-]

ergonomics? Pointability? Accuracy? Can you shoot it as accurately as the 43? I've really been looking forward to this review primarily because of the reliability question but I'd be curious how you rate it for "Shootability" and of all those guns which do you find to be the most accurate in your hands?

Thank you for doing this.

I tried to stay away from posting rankings and comparisons, since I feel like they are all so close that it'll come down to people's individual hand sizes, budgets, round count preferences, etc.

I do not feel that the small size of the P365 hurts the shootability compared to the slightly larger other guns in class. Honestly, I would be happy shooting any of the guns. I shot best with the Micro 9 (my current carry) and the P365, but the others were very close (except for the PM9 which I still need work on a trigger that goes that far back).

I have medium size hands. I use the "M" backstrap on Gen 4-5 Glocks. The notable thing about the P365 is that the front-to-rear length of the grip is much shorter than the other guns. That's not a negative thing for me. It just is. I could see how larger handed people might want a gun with a little more meat like a Shield 9 or G43.

For carry, I don't want to buy a new wardrobe or dress around my gun. I don't live in the inner city and don't need a combat carry firearm. So for me, the thinner the gun, the better.

I will probably still carry my Micro 9, but I would be happy to carry the P365 as well. It did not take any adjustment or time to get comfortable with it. I like the somewhat vertical grip angle of the P365 and Micro 9. If you look at my first picture, they both have a pretty similar angle.

Great write up.

Thank you very much, holster information very helpful as well!

OK, I am back in! :cheers:

Here's what I know.
My first pre-order was Sportsman's Outdoor placed the day after it was preorderable. There were 40 people on the list ahead of me and as of today, there were 20 left in front. They are getting shipments of ~3 at a time. So I'd expect that one will come through in the next month.

My second pre-order was my LGS. I was seventh on the list and they got 2 in the first wave Jan 23rd and another 2 last Wednesday. So probably 2 more weeks or so until that one comes in.

The final pre-order was the deal posted from Brownell's. When I talked to them, they said probably March or so. Which is still not bad.

Yes, a few more velocities if you would please . Particulary the Ruger LC9S. I’m surprised you got over 1000fps with 3’’ inch guns.

I also use 147 HST’s as my carry ammo, so this is all very interesting. Thanks -JCN-

Sorry! I didn't bring the Ruger to the range this time because I don't carry it at all. The dongle on the trigger is too long for me and I tend to not take much trigger finger. When drawing rapidly, I've had the situation where I get "locked out" of the trigger because I only catch the side of the dongle. So that immediately disqualified it for carry (for me). It's a sweet gun with a sweet trigger, though. It just doesn't work with my trigger finger position under stress.

I would imagine that the LC9S with 3.1" barrel would come in somewhere between the P365 and the Micro 9. The Micro 9 has generally performed better than other 3.1" barrels, maybe due to tightness of the tolerances. It's usually just ~15-20 fps down from my 3.4" Glocks (G26/43). It's actually noticeably faster than its 3.0" P938 cousin.

So I'd probably split the difference between the P365 velocity and the Micro 9 for an approximation of the LC9S. I'll attach some of those velocities for you.

The velocities today were a little faster (about 50 fps) than I see in Summer, maybe due to weather conditions / barometric pressure / cold influence on the primers? That's why I added in the G19X as a control / reference point.

Sig P365 with normal pressure 147 gr Lawman and Gold Dots

Kahr PM9

Glock G43

Kimber Micro 9

Glock G19X

I'll also remind people that ALL of the tiny 9mms with 147 gr +P (HST) had higher velocities than the G19X with normal pressure 147 gr. The P365 is rated for +P so if you want as much (or more) oomph in a tiny pistol as a full size with normal pressure 9mm... then run +P in your mouse guns. It's stouter on the recoil, but still not unpleasant.

Shooting the P365 with 147 gr +P reminds me of shooting weak 357 Sig out of a G22/31. It's more pleasant than shooting normal pressure 380 out of an LCP....

 

[G26S239]

In contrast to you I would probably shoot the PM9 well, that if its trigger is like my MK9 trigger.* I have owned or shot 9mm subcompacts other than my 26s but the only two I own now are the MK9 and Beretta Nano. I also use 147 HSTs in my 3" 9mms, mine are HST2 standard pressure.

*Not sure if the poly frame would change the feel much, with the stainless frame it is smooth.

 

[Velvetfoot]

Do you have an impression of how it would be to pocket carry? Similar to G42, I imagine?

 

[WeeWilly]

In contrast to you I would probably shoot the PM9 well, that if its trigger is like my MK9 trigger.* I have owned or shot 9mm subcompacts other than my 26s but the only two I own now are the MK9 and Beretta Nano. I also use 147 HSTs in my 3" 9mms, mine are HST2 standard pressure.

*Not sure if the poly frame would change the feel much, with the stainless frame it is smooth.

I think the triggers are very similar.

I found it very difficult to shoot the PM9 well on the clock. It took me many thousands of rounds getting myself up to either my G43/G26 scores or my Kimber M9. The issue for me also is the length of trigger travel and length of reset. I found it challenging to get my splits down with reasonable scores. I love my PM9 trigger otherwise. It kind of makes me laugh as I would have paid a smith a lot for a revolver trigger as butter smooth.

 

[dj45]

Thanks for the review, much appreciated.

For me, the only way I would carry the P365 would be with the 12 round mag with another 1 or 2 12-rounders for backup. So when it comes to my uses, 13 rounds would afford me quite a large advantage over anything else in the segment, and would equal my G26 w/Glock +2 extension, but in a much thinner and lighter package.

Definitely will be something I will check out. Hopefully when the initial rush dies down I will be able to handle one in my LGS.

 

[checkyoursix]

JCN, thank you for well thought out, documented and illustrated series of posts. Useful information, all of it.

 

[Borg Warner]

I'm impressed with th performance of the 147 grain Plus +P HST's out of the 3 inch barre and the fact that you say the recoil is controllable.

Despite it's size, I don't see it as a pocket carry gun. But carried IWB I think it would be very comfortable to carry from the time I get out of bed in the morning until the time I go to bed at night.

The alien gear holster looks like it would b comfortable for all-day every day carry

 

[Dave Lively]

View attachment 383936
Holy crap. The thing was slathered in what looks like white lithium grease. Nobody in their right mind would run a gun in that condition.

I wonder if the light firing pin strikes some people reported are completely due to the gun not being completely in battery or if big globs of grease in the firing pin channel are contributing to the problem.

I have always heard you should be careful not to put too much lube on areas of the slide where it can work into the firing pin channel and gum it up. Sig obviously does not think this is an issue.

When you were cleaning the grease off did you take the firing pin out? If so was it covered in grease too?