I've just about had it with titegroup

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by FiremanMike, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. FiremanMike

    FiremanMike Way too busy

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    Here's what I've loaded so far.. This is using precision delta 115gr FMJ round nose

    Load 1 = 4.0gr @ 1.150 OAL - Cycled fine, but recoil was so light it didn't even seem like worthwhile practice

    Load 2 = 4.5gr @ 1.145 OAL - Extremely hot round. Cases looked fine but the guy at the range said it looked like the primers were melting a bit, I'm not so sure that's the case but it was definitely a hot round, I didn't even want to try it in my PM9

    Load 3 = 4.0gr @ 1.13 OAL - only slightly less than the above in terms of felt recoil, more managable though.

    All of the above loads were very dirty on my gun, the last two weren't as smokey but still quite dirty.

    I just loaded 50 rds 4.0gr at 1.14 OAL, hopefully that will be the sweet spot I'm looking for..
     
  2. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Well, primers don't melt, the do get deformed by the breech face of the slide @ higher pressures. When you are done w/ that # of TG, move on to something else. There are lots of powder that work in the 9mm, maybe 20-25 good choices.
     

  3. FiremanMike

    FiremanMike Way too busy

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    I could see what he was pointing to, he was indicating that it was "melting" (deforming) around the striker.. I'm just not positive if what he was pointing to wasn't just the normal striker mark from my M&P, which IIRC makes an odd strike mark anyhow.
     
  4. mteagle1

    mteagle1

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    A general rule of thumb in competition circles is a light bullet slow powder and beavy bullet fast powders. Winchester 231 makes for a soft load with a 115gr bullet but I still use it in the 124/125 range.
     
  5. FiremanMike

    FiremanMike Way too busy

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    Everyone says to get 231, but I can't find it anywhere :(
     
  6. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    115 gr 9mm bullets suck. With any powder. Why didn't you try 4.3 or something like that @ 1.130?
     
  7. kcbrown

    kcbrown

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    Odd.

    When I was using Titegroup, my load was 4.2 grains with 124gr Montana Gold CMJ at 1.150" length. This yielded recoil characteristics a little less intense than Federal American Eagle 124gr FMJ, but not a lot less. I use the same charge underneath a 124gr or 125gr JHP at 1.135" OAL (the shorter length of the JHP more than makes up the difference). Max for that is 4.4 grains, and minimum is 4.0 grains, so my load is halfway in between.

    In my Glock, it's normal for the primer to deform around the striker pin a bit. If you haven't already, you should shoot some factory ammo and examine the primers in the spent cases. The amount of deformation you see there is probably about as much as you want to see.


    Titegroup is a very demanding powder -- there's only 0.4 grains difference between a minimum charge and a maximum charge with a 124gr bullet. Your powder measure has to be dead-nuts consistent to be workable with TG. That, and the fact that a slower powder allows one to achieve high-end velocities without requiring as much pressure, is why I switched to Silhouette.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
  8. Three-Five-Seven

    Three-Five-Seven Señor Mombo Millennium Member

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    I use titegroup in big, straight walled revolver cases. I use it because it is not temperature or position sensitive. In a small pistol case, like the 9mm, it has no advantage over other powders like Red Dot, Clays, and 231. Those powders seem to like smaller cases better than does titegroup.
     
  9. FiremanMike

    FiremanMike Way too busy

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    I can't consistently get 4.3 out of my powder disk measure for some reason. I can only get 4.0 or 4.5.. On the 4.0 disk I'm throwing between 4.0 and 4.2 depending on who knows what, on the 4.5 I'm throwing between 4.5 and 4.7. I think it has to do with settling in the hopper that's occuring during the other 3 pulls on my turret..
     
  10. dudel

    dudel

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    I think you've hit on the problem. You're using a powder that has a very small tolerance range with a dump that isn't accurate enough for your powder caliber combination.

    Get another powder (or get a better powder dump). Almost anthing will work better than what you have. Power Pistol, AA#2, AA#5, 231, Bullseye, Unique, etc, etc, etc. Grab a load book and pick another powder (one with a wider min to max range).
     
  11. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    I used TG with that exact setup. No issues at all. Even ran it with 115 gr bullets. These things are important with any press and a little more so with the LCT

    1) Be consistent in how you pull the handle. I prefer faster/deliberate motions with the LCT. There is NO advantage in going slow on the LCT. Faster settles the powder nicely. Also helps it be consistent. With TG you should not vary more then .1gr in the Pro Autodisc.
    2) If you are going to be weighting the charge to check the charge (wierd way of saying that), you need to pull the case right after sizing and priming and tap it on the table several times. Get the crap out. Then go back to the same way of pulling the handle and weight the charge.
    3) Its worth getting some extra disc and enlarging some of the smaller holes into inbetween sizes to get those throws closer to were you want.

    Let me know if this helps.

    Edit: Only check the charge after pulling the handle exactly as if you have loaded a round. That means 4 pulls in the same fashion that you use the press when loading.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
  12. Boxerglocker

    Boxerglocker Jacks #1 Fan

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    I agree with C4W and that was exactly what i did with the .39 disc I believe, I enlarged it ever so slightly with 800-100 grit sandpaper until it consistently threw 4.2g of TG. I still use TG with 124g FMJ's it's my standard practice/match load.

    As for everyone that has to objection to using TG. My opinion is... if your careful and know it's limitations...I have no problem with it.
    It obviously has it's place in the market...though it does have some letdowns such as being dirty, it is very versatile for several calibers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010
  13. Bultx1215

    Bultx1215

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    I'm using TG with 115's all the time and like it. Consistency is a must though. I found it necessary to TAP the hopper before every drop to be sure the hole is filled in the disc. Works like a champ, too. With 115's, I usually run 4.1g @ 1.125" COL. Have scads loaded that way. Its my main paper puncher load.
     
  14. sourdough44

    sourdough44

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    I load 4.2 grns of Titegroup with a 115 grn plated RN set to 1.10 col. It cycles fine & the chrony shows a low deviation average of 1087 fps. Like others have said it takes some care to precisely measure those small charges. When testing I may weigh each charge. Then I go on to my 'little dandy' powder measure with an adjustable rotor. When you get to the upper 4 grns(near 5) you will be high on the charge with most manuals & bullet types.
     
  15. unclebob

    unclebob DFC, MSM, 12 Air Medals.

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    With a load of 4.0 of Tightgroup try a COL of 1.120. You are seating way too long for that amount of powder.
     
  16. kcbrown

    kcbrown

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    .03" of seating depth makes that much of a difference?!? :wow:
     
  17. unclebob

    unclebob DFC, MSM, 12 Air Medals.

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    He is loading 4.0 of tightgroup at 1.150,1.140,and 1.130, 4.1 of Tightgroup is starting load. So yes it could make a difference of the gun working or not. I have used 3.9 at 1.120 and have the gun work.
    It may or may not work in his gun.
     
  18. MoNsTeR

    MoNsTeR

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    If you're loading traditionally-shaped FMJs your OAL should be 1.169" or just slightly less.
     
  19. Boxerglocker

    Boxerglocker Jacks #1 Fan

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    Thats a max OAL some magazines won't even accept OAL's close to max.
     
  20. unclebob

    unclebob DFC, MSM, 12 Air Medals.

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    Why does it have to be??????