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Ba-nan-nah-nuh
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
.... who dump full magazines, reload and dump that magazine too.... because of fear or bad combat training, never actually shooting at an enemy.... just load-n-dump, load-n-dump.

So... because MY purpose for carrying is because I am in total fear of bears... and for me, carrying the one, single weapon I currently own..... a G20.4..... I only practice with it, carry it, dry fire it.... almost sleep with it so that I have it totally imprinted into my mind that a "Glock is hot out of the holster and has no thumb safety and why waste precious time trying to remember if it's ON or not"....... etc., etc.

This goes for the magazine release or any other push buttons/switches on my firearm.

So... expending upon the scene where the GI dumps mags. ... or cycles his rifle in a firefight until it's empty with his feet covered in live ammo......... I don't train to "mag-dump" at all. I figger that 15+1 against a bear is very likely to be 11 or 12 rds more than I'll get to fire anyway ........ nom, nom.

So why teach myself Mag Dumping 1A, when I'll never use it in a Bear-n-Me interlude?

Extended gunfights are not in my future (nor purpose) unless Yogi or Boo Boo start carrying too.... so why overcomplicate my firearm training?

Cops need to.... military need to... hell, even bad guys may need to (hopefully NOT!) because of their particular choice and employment circumstances.... but I'm just fishing for crying out loud.

[/soapbox]

BTW ---> this goes under "General Glocking"..... because "Generally"... I only own a "Glock(ing)".
 

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Okay, I'll bite. A grizzly attacks you. As it comes at you, it is bouncing up and down, side to side. Hard to get a head shot if the target keeps moving, right? I figure you are going to aim for the middle of the front silhouette. In this case, I think the more rounds you fire, the better chances of a hit to the head. Call it a "controlled mag dump" into the approaching silhouette. Not just spray and pray, but a nice fast group of shots as fast as you can reliably shoot into that front silhouette.

Now, can you really take the time to get a precise head shot instead of the picture I've painted?
 

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Ba-nan-nah-nuh
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If you don't carry a spare mag with you while fishing then you're absolutely right.
Yeah... there's that too to nag at me a bit......

Suppose I don't meet Smokey or Paddington but instead run into 17 zombies?

At 15+1..... it's not a perfect ratio for 1 zombie = 1 bullet.
17:16 leaves a little something to be desired.... right?

Now you've re-raised the one reoccurring nightmare fear I worry about: needing to mag dump-n-reload...
but if I don't carry extra mags and don't practice reloading.... it becomes moot....
well, I hope zombies are pretty slow like I see in the movies
and I might have time OTJ, and learn to reload.......
If I carry a second mag, that is​
 

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Ba-nan-nah-nuh
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
<snip> Now, can you really take the time to get a precise head shot instead of the picture I've painted?
Bear or zombie?
I think they both need the same intervention..... to the head.

For bear(s) ... I load with Underwood XPs, so I'm hoping they live up to their ads saying 24 inch penetration with a 7 inch wound channel in Ursal tissue. Plenty of CNS shock there, one might think/believe.

Zombies OTOH are less inclined to charge with as much velocity as a bear... so shooter's Jitter Factor might be lower and decent it-the-cranium shots more attainable.

I say....
For bears: more rounds are better because bears are fast.
For zombies: one round each, between the eyes should suffice and rapid firing is less of a need.

I could be wrong about the zombies though.
 

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It's called the SLIDE STOP LEVER, not the SLIDE LOCK.

(That's just to put something Glock-specific into this thread until moderators flush it out of the General Glocking Forum.)
 
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Average time from safety to empty (20 round magazine loaded with 18) for first time combat was 2.2 seconds. You tend to calm down a little after that.
 

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.... who dump full magazines, reload and dump that magazine too.... because of fear or bad combat training, never actually shooting at an enemy.... just load-n-dump, load-n-dump.

So... because MY purpose for carrying is because I am in total fear of bears... and for me, carrying the one, single weapon I currently own..... a G20.4..... I only practice with it, carry it, dry fire it.... almost sleep with it so that I have it totally imprinted into my mind that a "Glock is hot out of the holster and has no thumb safety and why waste precious time trying to remember if it's ON or not"....... etc., etc.

This goes for the magazine release or any other push buttons/switches on my firearm.

So... expending upon the scene where the GI dumps mags. ... or cycles his rifle in a firefight until it's empty with his feet covered in live ammo......... I don't train to "mag-dump" at all. I figger that 15+1 against a bear is very likely to be 11 or 12 rds more than I'll get to fire anyway ........ nom, nom.

So why teach myself Mag Dumping 1A, when I'll never use it in a Bear-n-Me interlude?

Extended gunfights are not in my future (nor purpose) unless Yogi or Boo Boo start carrying too.... so why overcomplicate my firearm training?

Cops need to.... military need to... hell, even bad guys may need to (hopefully NOT!) because of their particular choice and employment circumstances.... but I'm just fishing for crying out loud.

[/soapbox]

BTW ---> this goes under "General Glocking"..... because "Generally"... I only own a "Glock(ing)".


I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "mag dump" and why you thought you were supposed to teach yourself "Mag Dumping 1A," to begin with.

First, in the gun world, "mag dump" means nonstop firing off all the rounds in your magazine until it's empty. I thought that's what you meant with your discussion of soldiers and firefights, but then it looks like maybe you mean dropping a full magazine on the ground? Or maybe you just mean reloading, since you apparently mean some skill you practice???
 
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Couple things. Unless you are practicing a lot under some sort of stress, you may very well not be able to land any hits on a charging yogi because you admit to having a high level of fear. So to reduce that, a lot of practice under stress will help.
Safeties; if you train with a safety, it is not any slower than no safety. The safety is snicked off on the presentation as the gun clears the holster. I have proven this many times with my glock friends in drills. It just requires a lot of practice to get the feel of where the safety is at presentation. I don't feel having a lot of rounds in a bear charge will be important, it will be close before you can shoot & it will be very, very fast. So controlled power is what I want because I know I will only get to land 2-3 good hits with a flash site picture in the 1.5 sec I have until I am shooting from my back with 500# of pissed off teeth & claws on me. The 10mm with 200gr WNLFP @ 1200fps is my min bear country load. I prefer 44mag or heavy 45colt, but in the lower 48, I think the 10mm is valid with the right load.
 
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I've never encountered a bear or zombies but my strategy is to fire as fast as possible and get the heck out of Dodge. Maybe the bear will stop to smell the poop I leave behind.
As for the soldier thing, from what I have read about Vietnam, a lot of soldiers did not want to actually kill anyone so they fired a lot of ammo hoping to scare the enemy away. I have read the ratio of rounds shot to enemy killed and it was huge.
If you shoot 15 zombies and are empty, the 16th one will get the message and give up.
 

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Okay, I'll bite. A grizzly attacks you. As it comes at you, it is bouncing up and down, side to side. Hard to get a head shot if the target keeps moving, right? I figure you are going to aim for the middle of the front silhouette. In this case, I think the more rounds you fire, the better chances of a hit to the head. Call it a "controlled mag dump" into the approaching silhouette. Not just spray and pray, but a nice fast group of shots as fast as you can reliably shoot into that front silhouette.

Now, can you really take the time to get a precise head shot instead of the picture I've painted?
I lived in Alaska 14 years. When a grizzly charges they are never straight forward. Seems angled like dogs approach at times. I never had to shoot since 3 were bluffs, but all bluffs I experienced were angled just like dogs. Was told by old timer the bear skull is too thick and pointless to shoot there. You should aim for whichever front shoulder he offers in his charge. Again, never had to do it in all my time. Bears were usually fishing as we were. They get curious, but if you watch them and respect them they usually do the same. Main thing is make noise to avoid surprises. Easy to do when fishing. Hunting not so much.
 

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I lived in Alaska 14 years. When a grizzly charges they are never straight forward. Seems angled like dogs approach at times. I never had to shoot since 3 were bluffs, but all bluffs I experienced were angled just like dogs. Was told by old timer the bear skull is too thick and pointless to shoot there. You should aim for whichever front shoulder he offers in his charge. Again, never had to do it in all my time. Bears were usually fishing as we were. They get curious, but if you watch them and respect them they usually do the same. Main thing is make noise to avoid surprises. Easy to do when fishing. Hunting not so much.
Especially bow hunters. You are in camo & being quiet, often making distressed animal calls.
 

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I've never encountered a bear or zombies but my strategy is to fire as fast as possible and get the heck out of Dodge. Maybe the bear will stop to smell the poop I leave behind.
up.
Actually a really poor strategy. You end up possibly wounding a dangerous animal, making it more dangerous, & no way you out run a bear. Besides running you are just easy food & the bear knows that.
 

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Ba-nan-nah-nuh
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
We


I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "mag dump" and why you thought you were supposed to teach yourself "Mag Dumping 1A," to begin with.

First, in the gun world, "mag dump" means nonstop firing off all the rounds in your magazine until it's empty. I thought that's what you meant with your discussion of soldiers and firefights, but then it looks like maybe you mean dropping a full magazine on the ground? Or maybe you just mean reloading, since you apparently mean some skill you practice???
Well... "mag dump" was prolly the wrong term. I used "dump" as in "dump it on the ground".... full of unspent rounds.

case
 

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Well... "mag dump" was prolly the wrong term. I used "dump" as in "dump it on the ground".... full of unspent rounds.

case
Why would you teach yourself doing something that people sometimes do by accident because they panic? I still don't get it.

I'm not sure anybody else does either, because they seem to be talking about learning to reload (which might take you an hour to learn, if you're slow, so why wouldn't you?)
 

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I've never encountered a bear or zombies but my strategy is to fire as fast as possible and get the heck out of Dodge. Maybe the bear will stop to smell the poop I leave behind.
As for the soldier thing, from what I have read about Vietnam, a lot of soldiers did not want to actually kill anyone so they fired a lot of ammo hoping to scare the enemy away. I have read the ratio of rounds shot to enemy killed and it was huge.
If you shoot 15 zombies and are empty, the 16th one will get the message and give up.
Running will incite the chase and capture instinct. You will never outrun a bear, never. Best plan is to kill or incapacitate the bear. Accuracy and well placed shots are your #1 best hope of surviving a hostile bear encounter.

With regards to your reference to soldiers and Vietnam and military shooting tendencies, I recommend that you read Lt. Col. (ret) Dave Grossman’s “On Killing” or “On Combat”. His books start a little dry but the pace does pick up, and his research and writing is quite fascinating. His books are considered serious required reading for anyone who is a gun nut, and pretty much required reading for graduates of any services officer training program.


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