Israel dancing around Russian AAA

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Tomcat1977, Jun 15, 2020.

  1. Tomcat1977

    Tomcat1977 "Cynical Little me"

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    The Syrain's are starting to ask serious questions about how the IAF is bombing them at will and their vaunted Russian S-300 and 400 systems have ended up being pretty useless. https://breakingdefense.com/2020/06...-strikes-against-syria-raise-s-400-questions/

    They are even criticizing them officially, unheard of in the past. https://syriadirect.org/news/how-does-israel-keep-getting-past-syria’s-air-defenses/

    Meanwhile the Turks have placed future orders of S-400's on hold and havn't yet deployed the one they have because suddenly trading F-35s for S-400s doesn't sound like a very good deal.

    Especially since the F-35s are being retro'ed with the newer AGM-88E missiles that have advanced seekers including a MM wave one which means even if you turn the radar off the missile will seek on its own the radar return of the AAA unit, and in all kinds of weather. In other words it doesnt matter if you turn the radar off.

    Currently they have a range of 90 miles and the ER version will be at least 150 miles and the missile itself can be reprogrammed in flight to act as a standard strike missile should you change your mind about radars as a target.

    The F-35 can be detected, in the best conditions, about 20 to 30 miles from the S-400. Maybe closer if flying NOE. So the lightening can get within glide bomb range without being detected, a SDB-ll has a range of 40 miles depending. And a system detecting of a stealth aircraft is not the same thing as a missile lock, not that it matters cause the ground radar unit will probably have a short unhappy life.

    Anyhoo the IAF isn't even finding it necessary to take out the radars to complete their missions. And the Turks are starting to wonder why they made this lousy deal in the first place.
     
  2. as400guy1

    as400guy1

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    Cuz they hate 'merica
     
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  3. RenoF250

    RenoF250

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    I would not get too excited about a modern plane beating a 50 YO system in a 3rd world S hole.
     
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  4. Chui

    Chui

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    This.

    I would imagine they will not have the latest software and there’s no way in Hades I’d provide Turkey with the latest of anything.

    But we all know it’s all about constant engineering development: what’s the best today will he equaled tomorrow and surpassed next week - and vice versa.


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  5. DonGlock26

    DonGlock26

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    **** Turkey. They don't deserve F35's.
     
  6. Chui

    Chui

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    Top Comment from the first article:


    “Truly disappointing article and comment section - all I see is blind pro-Western and also some pro-Russian voices going after each other with little interest in fact checking anything (with a tiny number of notable exceptions). The S-400 was installed in Syria in 2015 after a Russian Su-24M was shot down by a Turkish F-16, for the sole purpose of protecting Russian aircraft after that very specific incident. Russia never claimed or promised to use the system against Israel or anyone else unless their own aircraft were threatened directly, which simply hasn't happened to date and is very unlikely to happen. The Russians and Israelis directly coordinate their actions and inform each other (just like the Russians and NATO forces do) to ensure they minimize the chances of shooting at each other. There is literally no basis to make any conclusion about S-400 performance in this article, neither good nor bad: Syria does not operate the S-400 and the Russians are staying away from shooting at Israeli and NATO aircraft or weapons. Literally on the same day that this article was published, Turkey announced that they have completed a deal for the supply of the second batch of S-400 systems, which should give some indication of what Turkey really thinks of the system. It appears both the author and the majority of the commentators here have no idea what is actually going on and simply writing on the basis of some fictional Israeli-Russian war going on in their heads.”

    So we don’t know the full capability of those systems yet.

    I hope we never have to find out.


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  7. Wurger

    Wurger

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    The S-400 was first deployed by the Russians in 2007.
    The F35 first flew in 2006.
    First deployed in 2015.
    Good to see Israel’s still ahead of their enemies. Drives the God haters nuts.
     
  8. mike from st pe

    mike from st pe

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    U.S.A. should STOP selling military hardware to other countries.
     
  9. as400guy1

    as400guy1

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    Wait...are you saying the media is not presenting all the facts?
    Strange.
     
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  10. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

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    Then how would we afford it?
     
  11. Tomcat1977

    Tomcat1977 "Cynical Little me"

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    The S-400 is their premiere AAA system. Their #1 export too. Its not a 50yo system, its been in service for 12 years, S hole or not. And they brag the 48N6E3 and 40N6 versions are effective against stealth.

    But yes you are correct that it, or any other, system can not change the Laws of Physics. Only redundancy of different networked systems , operating in the entire electro-magnetic range, can provide true air defense and even then they are at serious risk from stealth and emerging missilery.

    Which is why the USN uses AWAC's type aircraft and picket vessels hundreds of miles from a carrier. Its why the old F-14s had a powerful electro optical system able to physically "see" threats from 50+ miles away. Its why our CVs and naval ships, along with standard radars and AWACs, uses the enhanced "Stalker" system of electro-optical, infrared, and Laser ranging to protect the carrier. All of it networked.

    So add systems like Stalker to AWACs, to different High Freq and Low Freq radars, networked together in a combat management system, is a much better way to go. Even then your not going to beat stealth and long range precision missilery. Not American at least. The Russians brag the S-300 and 400 systems are the ultimate all in one stand alone system and they are getting embarrassed by it.
     
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  12. mike from st pe

    mike from st pe

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    Just how much of the U.S.A.'s gross national product now goes to the military ?
     
  13. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

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    Not enough to finance the development and procurement of systems like the F-35 without outside help.
     
  14. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Less than Russia.
     
  15. Tomcat1977

    Tomcat1977 "Cynical Little me"

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    Thing is when you build an airplane you have an airplane. What do you have after pissing away billion of $$ on welfare and social programs other then another generation that doesn't want to work?
     
  16. slym2none

    slym2none

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    Yeah - at least the airplane actually works.
     
  17. Tomcat1977

    Tomcat1977 "Cynical Little me"

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    A little over 3.1%. The numbers are misleading tho. Right now we are in the middle of upgrading very costly strategic systems like a new Columbia class SSBN to replace the Ohio's, a Virginia class SSN with expanded Tomahawk ,12 missiles to 40, capability to replace the 4 Ohio class SSGNs, 154 each. A new ICBM class to replace the old Minuteman-lll and a new B-21 stealth bomber to replace old, very old, strategic bombers like the B1b and B-52H.

    Especially the USN is getting a big chunk of its budget eaten up by the Columbia's. Trump had to make up for the 8 years of stagnation under Obama, these new systems and technology's are essential to keeping the peace by making our enemies quake in fear. Peace has a price tag.

    Plus there is a crap load of jobs in the defense Industry of which America is the #1 exporter and we do have congressional over sight of military systems we sell, unlike other countries who will sell to anyone with a check book. Even the biggest Leftist in D.C. will turn hawkish when they have defense jobs in their district and pork to protect.
     
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  18. mike from st pe

    mike from st pe

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    Withdraw all overseas U.S. troops from overseas. Close all overseas bases and stop selling U.S. military hardware.
     
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  19. mike from st pe

    mike from st pe

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    Easy, lower the prices.
     
  20. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

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    That’s a fine solution in fantasy land.