Glock Forum - GlockTalk banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just saw this on Armslist and it got me thinking someone just might wind up in deep you know what
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,919 Posts
That top one looks like an AOW to me...
 

·
Who?
Joined
·
7,957 Posts
That top one looks like an AOW to me...
Ding!

I have seen people doing it on AR pistols with longer barrels where the OAL was over 26" (Since it's over 26" it can't be considered a handgun, so a VFG is technically legal), but that's really cutting it razor thin.

That said, the barrel on the top AR in that picture doesn't look long enough for that, so I hope the owner has an approved tax stamp, or he's committing a federal felony.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
42,101 Posts
Doesn't the barrel have to be over 16" along with the 26" minimum OAL?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,802 Posts
Doesn't the barrel have to be over 16" along with the 26" minimum OAL?
For it not to be a pistol, or other wise outside the lines, yes;

Bottom line, that's legally a pistol, and adding the vertical foregrip makes it an AOW......

Absent the correct NFA paperwork, that weapon is in violation.
 

·
Who?
Joined
·
7,957 Posts
Doesn't the barrel have to be over 16" along with the 26" minimum OAL?
It depends. There's a gap in the way some of the gun laws are written. If a firearm is over 26" OAL it can't be considered a handgun (it's not readily concealable), but no butt stock means it isn't a rifle or SBR, either. Since it fits neither definition, you can have a foregrip on it.

Franklin Armory is selling something in that exact configuration. It's legally not an AOW, nor a pistol, nor a rifle. On the 4473 it gets listed as "Other."

IMO, eventually the ATF is going to get tired of these "loopholes" or "hacks" of the NFA laws, and either find a way to rule these kinds of things illegal, or there will be some kind of push in Congress to ban them.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
42,101 Posts
It depends. There's a gap in the way some of the gun laws are written. If a firearm is over 26" OAL it can't be considered a handgun (it's not readily concealable), but no butt stock means it isn't a rifle or SBR, either. Since it fits neither definition, you can have a foregrip on it.

Franklin Armory is selling something in that exact configuration. It's legally not an AOW, nor a pistol, nor a rifle. On the 4473 it gets listed as "Other."

IMO, eventually the ATF is going to get tired of these "loopholes" or "hacks" of the NFA laws, and either find a way to rule these kinds of things illegal, or there will be some kind of push in Congress to ban them.
Learn something new every day.
 

·
Cranky Member
Joined
·
1,447 Posts
It depends. There's a gap in the way some of the gun laws are written. If a firearm is over 26" OAL it can't be considered a handgun (it's not readily concealable), but no butt stock means it isn't a rifle or SBR, either. Since it fits neither definition, you can have a foregrip on it.

Franklin Armory is selling something in that exact configuration. It's legally not an AOW, nor a pistol, nor a rifle. On the 4473 it gets listed as "Other."

IMO, eventually the ATF is going to get tired of these "loopholes" or "hacks" of the NFA laws, and either find a way to rule these kinds of things illegal, or there will be some kind of push in Congress to ban them.
ATF Letter or not, I wouldn't want to be the one having to defend myself when the ATF comes a-knocking.

The ATF has been known to change the rulings on weapons all the time, ATF letters be damned. Why be the guinea pig? :dunno:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,919 Posts
ATF Letter or not, I wouldn't want to be the one having to defend myself when the ATF comes a-knocking.

The ATF has been known to change the rulings on weapons all the time, ATF letters be damned. Why be the guinea pig? :dunno:
I have always found it strange that the ATF a law enforcement agency is deciding what is legal and what isn't. Aren't they just supposed to enforce law?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,129 Posts
It depends. There's a gap in the way some of the gun laws are written. If a firearm is over 26" OAL it can't be considered a handgun (it's not readily concealable), but no butt stock means it isn't a rifle or SBR, either. Since it fits neither definition, you can have a foregrip on it.

Franklin Armory is selling something in that exact configuration. It's legally not an AOW, nor a pistol, nor a rifle. On the 4473 it gets listed as "Other."

IMO, eventually the ATF is going to get tired of these "loopholes" or "hacks" of the NFA laws, and either find a way to rule these kinds of things illegal, or there will be some kind of push in Congress to ban them.
That looks like a 10.5" barrel. The overall length on an AR-15 with a 10.5" barrel is about 24" measured from the end of barrel WITHOUT the muzzle device to the end of the buffer tube. Unless that muzzle device is pinned, that would be classified as an AOW as it would not meet the 26" requirement. If it is pinned, it still would be way too close for my comfort. I have never understood why some people insist on walking such fine lines in grey areas with federal agencies that can basically interpret and enforce vaguely written laws as they see fit.

Without that top firearm being registered with BATFE as an AOW or SBR and logged in the NFA register properly, I wouldn't have possession of it come hell or high water.
 

·
Who?
Joined
·
7,957 Posts
I have always found it strange that the ATF a law enforcement agency is deciding what is legal and what isn't. Aren't they just supposed to enforce law?
They determine how the law is interpreted, especially in situations that are a little grey. Not what I agree with, but that's how it is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,919 Posts
They determine how the law is interpreted, especially in situations that are a little grey. Not what I agree with, but that's how it is.
Normally laws are interpreted by the Attorney Generals office or the courts. Not that I want Holder interpreting gun laws, but does your local state police commander decide what is legal with regard to concealed carry?

No, that is up to the state's attorney or the court system. If there is uncertainty the state's attorney would need to make a ruling as to how the law will be enforced.

Preaching to the choir... Just a very odd situation and a huge crap sandwich that we have been forced to eat since the 30's.

Please mister ATF can I please have my constitutional rights?

Yes, I follow the laws, but don't tell me I have to like it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,919 Posts
I asked this question in another thread, what about an angled grip, legal on an AR pistol or no ?
I have seen ATF letters posted in this and other forums that say that AFG's are legal.

Do a search you can probaably find them
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,256 Posts
IMO, eventually the ATF is going to get tired of these "loopholes" or "hacks" of the NFA laws, and either find a way to rule these kinds of things illegal, or there will be some kind of push in Congress to ban them.
For a minute there I thought you were going this direction-
...get tired of these "loopholes" or "hacks" of the NFA laws and say, "To hell with it" then dissolve.

Then I remembered government never gets smaller.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top