GlockTalk Forum banner

21 - 40 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,210 Posts
In CA all Police Unions endorse Democrats. How else do you get 90% after 30 years of service? :cop:
Let’s see you do 30 years of police service. Most places it was 50% after 20 with additional benefits if you stayed longer with no minimum age. The cop must be 50 years old to have a service pension. So if he got on at 20 years old, he couldn’t retire until he was 50 years old and has to do 30 years. A lot of departments allow over time to be calculated into the pension numbers. A lot of CA police pensions do not allow for that. And if I had worked for 30 years, my pension would be more than 90% of my salary when I was working. Working 25 years in New York, my take home pay is significantly higher in retirement than when I was working with 40 hours of overtime every month to give you an idea.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,542 Posts
Let’s see you do 30 years of police service. Most places it was 50% after 20 with additional benefits if you stayed longer with no minimum age. The cop must be 50 years old to have a service pension. So if he got on at 20 years old, he couldn’t retire until he was 50 years old and has to do 30 years. A lot of departments allow over time to be calculated into the pension numbers. A lot of CA police pensions do not allow for that. And if I had worked for 30 years, my pension would be more than 90% of my salary when I was working. Working 25 years in New York, my take home pay is significantly higher in retirement than when I was working with 40 hours of overtime every month to give you an idea.
The point that Glock Commander was trying to make is that Democrats support Unions, and pensions. Republicans do not. If the Republicans had their way, pension plans would be eliminated.

Trust me when I say the issue is a double edged sword.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,127 Posts
No communist or dictatorship government has local police.

The average American takes for granted the privilege it is to be policed by members of their own community, and not soldiers or federal agents like the rest of the world.

All of this nonsense can be blamed on ignorance of the legal systems throughout the rest of the world.

No system is perfect. Some are terrifying and the citizens live in fear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,210 Posts
The point that Glock Commander was trying to make is that Democrats support Unions, and pensions. Republicans do not. If the Republicans had their way, pension plans would be eliminated.

Trust me when I say the issue is a double edged sword.
It’s the democrats here that are attacking our pension plans. We went from tier 2 ( a tier is what pension plan category you fall into), a tier which had been around since 1973 to 2009. Now they are up to tier 5 ( or tier 3 “ enhanced” , or tier 3 “ revised “ etc ) or tier 6 . Each tier would get less and less. They even got made line of duty injury pensions only 44% at one point. They since fixed it under extreme political pressure of seeing injured cops like a female cop who was burned in a fire making less than their original base salaries.

Please note which unions are backing Trump. It’s a lot of them.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,542 Posts
It’s the democrats here that are attacking our pension plans. We went from tier 2 ( a tier is what pension plan category you fall into), a tier which had been around since 1973 to 2009. Now they are up to tier 5 ( or tier 3 “ enhanced” , or tier 3 “ revised “ etc ) or tier 6 . Each tier would get less and less. They even got made line of duty injury pensions only 44% at one point. They since fixed it under extreme political pressure of seeing injured cops like a female cop who was burned in a fire making less than their original base salaries.

Please note which unions are backing Trump. It’s a lot of them.
Ironically, I am in tier 5. I started out on tier 3, but it sucked. I stayed with tier 3 until tier 5 came along, then I jumped ship. Best decision I ever made. But I digress.... it’s a bit confusing when it comes to specifically “Police unions,” and “Police Pension Plans,” but here on the West Coast, the Democrats traditionally supported labor unions and pension plans across the board, while the Republicans wanted to do do away with them. Most recently, I imagine Democrats are having a lot of issues trying to reconcile their support of labor unions, and work pensions, while somehow dismantling anything that might be good for police officers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,210 Posts
Ironically, I am in tier 5. I started out on tier 3, but it sucked. I stayed with tier 3 until tier 5 came along, then I jumped ship. Best decision I ever made. But I digress.... it’s a bit confusing when it comes to specifically “Police unions,” and “Police Pension Plans,” but here on the West Coast, the Democrats traditionally supported labor unions and pension plans across the board, while the Republicans wanted to do do away with them. Most recently, I imagine Democrats are having a lot of issues trying to reconcile their support of labor unions, and work pensions, while somehow dismantling anything that might be good for police officers.
We, here , are lucky that our forefathers saw what might happen and did happen during the Great Depression. They put pension protections into the state constitution so if they changed the pension plans, everyone who was on the old plan would be grandfathered in. I couldn’t imagine having the rug pulled out from under me with every change they want to do to the plan.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,113 Posts
England does have police that reports to one area like the metropolitan London police is one area. Another city has a different police force. You have to think of England like one State in the United States. There are local departments. They all have to meet the state requirements but not all work for the state government but rather a lot of them work for local governments.
Very true, but, it's not uncommon for a copper to transfer from say Kent to Cambridge and it be seamless...transferring from one state to another in our country can involve all sorts of things. But you are right, England is contained more like on our states.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,542 Posts
We, here , are lucky that our forefathers saw what might happen and did happen during the Great Depression. They put pension protections into the state constitution so if they changed the pension plans, everyone who was on the old plan would be grandfathered in. I couldn’t imagine having the rug pulled out from under me with every change they want to do to the plan.
For us, moving from one tier to another is strictly voluntary. Tier 5 was so much better than tier 3, that most people jumped at the chance to move to the new plan. There were some people who were so distrusting of change that they dug in their heels and refused to change to the new tier. A few years later when tier 5 bore fruit, a few of the people who steadfastly resisted changing tried to change, albeit late. They were denied. So as for me, I don’t feel like a rug was pulled out from under me, rather, I feel like I was given an opportunity.
 

·
NRA Life Member
Joined
·
63,398 Posts
(and yeah i thought about putting this in political but would like more response from State, City, County LE)

I think deep down everyone with at least 1/3 of a brain knows we need Police of some type. I'm wondering if more the long goal is to eliminate local control of Law Enforcement, turning them into unarmed social workers while a new Federal police would do the real work. Nobody seems to be talking about defunding the FBI, BATFE, DEA, SS, etc..

I know in my state the local bad guys already could give two craps about racking up state felony charges as they know they will be out in 45 days or so per year sentenced, or more likely just collect new terms of Probation while already on Probation or Parole. They DO however fear Federal Charges where they serve 85%.

Just curious peoples thoughts on if this might be a thing?
Sounds like a reasonable step in the communist revolution the left is working toward.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,339 Posts
It's about causing crime to explode and create unsafe environments around the country.

DA's not charging crimes
No bail = instant release
Mass release of prisoners
Demonizing police
Demonizing ICE

One person is funding all of this. This can all be stopped.

https://nationalpolice.org/the-george-soros-war-against-tough-on-crime-law-and-order-prosecutors/
This.

The chaos is what the left wants, because then the people will demand totalitarian control, and that's what the socialists need in order to take away our guns and force compliance to all of their new big government rules and regulations.

This is the plan. Don't believe anything else.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,210 Posts
This.

The chaos is what the left wants, because then the people will demand totalitarian control, and that's what the socialists need in order to take away our guns and force compliance to all of their new big government rules and regulations.

This is the plan. Don't believe anything else.
People were given an opportunity to switch tiers here too. At least for the tier 3 when they gave the opportunity for the line of duty injury pension issue to be fixed. Most changed over but are paying a higher contribution rate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,452 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
74,461 Posts
(and yeah i thought about putting this in political but would like more response from State, City, County LE)

I think deep down everyone with at least 1/3 of a brain knows we need Police of some type. I'm wondering if more the long goal is to eliminate local control of Law Enforcement, turning them into unarmed social workers while a new Federal police would do the real work. Nobody seems to be talking about defunding the FBI, BATFE, DEA, SS, etc..

I know in my state the local bad guys already could give two craps about racking up state felony charges as they know they will be out in 45 days or so per year sentenced, or more likely just collect new terms of Probation while already on Probation or Parole. They DO however fear Federal Charges where they serve 85%.

Just curious peoples thoughts on if this might be a thing?
Yes in part. The Swamp would love to be your cop.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,217 Posts
When I first heard about the movement I thought, WOW! Every criminal's dream; NO MORE ARRESTS!

It's never about the criminal changing his/her behavior, it's about less penalty.
If I was still an outlaw, I'd love the idea!

...oh and the government-to-be can move their (insert color)-shirts in with a clean slate. Who loses, you ask?
Look in the mirror!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
538 Posts
(and yeah i thought about putting this in political but would like more response from State, City, County LE)

I think deep down everyone with at least 1/3 of a brain knows we need Police of some type. I'm wondering if more the long goal is to eliminate local control of Law Enforcement, turning them into unarmed social workers while a new Federal police would do the real work. Nobody seems to be talking about defunding the FBI, BATFE, DEA, SS, etc..

I know in my state the local bad guys already could give two craps about racking up state felony charges as they know they will be out in 45 days or so per year sentenced, or more likely just collect new terms of Probation while already on Probation or Parole. They DO however fear Federal Charges where they serve 85%.

Just curious peoples thoughts on if this might be a thing?

For over 100 years, it has been a goal of the Leftwing Marxists to abolish our American decentralized LE system of local, county, and state law enforcement agencies.

Leftists in the USA have been working toward this goal for over a century. The creation of the BATFE and Department of Homeland Security two of of their successes (which they achieved with the connivance of globalist RINOs like Nixon and Bush), and the Leftists have been trying other things too. For example, when Joe Biden's son Beau Biden was Attorney-General of Delaware, he tried to remove LE powers from the county sheriff's departments.

The Leftists want to replace our traditional locally-run LE system with a centrally-controlled Leftist Enforcer Corps, like they did after the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia.

After overthrowing the Russian Tsar, the Bolsheviks (communists) abolished the old police system, and created their own police system with the NKVD (secret police who were empowered to arrest, torture and even execute anyone who opposed the communist system).

The Leftists have the same goal for the USA.

The Leftists want to defund our existing police, so they can replace the police with their own centrally controlled organization of thuggish enforcers, which will be led by someone like Eric Holder or maybe that pimp who was recently hired by the city of Seattle for $150,000/year.

Instead of patriotic Americans, the ranks of the new Leftist NKVD-style police force will be filled with vicious and hateful anti-White hardcore Marxists such as Black Lives Matter members, Antifa, MS-13, etc etc etc. And they will be heavily armed and have all the resources of the federal government behind them.


Unfortunately, some "conservatives" are foolishly, short-sightedly and misguidedly playing right into the Leftist hands, by supporting the federalization of the American police system.


I'm talking about the "I want to see Antifa in jail so bad, I'm willing to destroy the Constitution to make it happen" Squad. This is a moronic and short-sighted mentality. These mindless lemmings were probably huge supporters of the "Patriot Act" when Bush was president. Now they want Trump and Barr to seize control of state and local LE agencies, just so they can gloat about "owning the libs" on Facebook.


Any "conservative" who supports the federalization of the police by Trump needs to be reminded:

1) Trump isn't going to be president forever.


2) If Trump creates a federally-controlled LE system to use against Antifa, the next Democrat POTUS can and will use that federally-controlled LE system against gun owners, Christians, patriots, and conservatives. If you give the government the power to violate the Constitution to crush people you don't like, the government can and will use that same power to violate the Constitution to crush YOU.


3) Preserving our rights and freedom and our Constitutional system of government is far more important than putting a bunch of Antifa losers in jail just so you can gloat about "owning the libs" on Facebook.


4) The Leftists have been trying to disempower/abolish local LE and create a federal centrally-controlled LE system for over a century. Why do you want to give the Leftists what they have wanted for 100 years?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
538 Posts
The left IS trying to get rid of local LEO to be replaced by a federal force. They won't recruit veteran as they've been triwn under the bus by the dems allong with LEO's.
They want people loyal to their regime.
Look at Germany in the 30's.

Well said.


Once the Leftists get the centralized, federally-controlled LE system that they have wanted for over 100 years, they will NOT be hiring patriotic military veterans.

They WILL be hiring Black Lives Matter thugs, MS-13, Muslims, militant LGBTQXYZ activists, Antifa members, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
538 Posts
England does have police that reports to one area like the metropolitan London police is one area. Another city has a different police force. You have to think of England like one State in the United States. There are local departments. They all have to meet the state requirements but not all work for the state government but rather a lot of them work for local governments.

That isn't entirely accurate.

In England (and Wales), there were once many city and local police departments which were supervised by local "watch committees".

However, over time (especially during the 1960s) the British central government has merged and consolidated these smaller departments into around 43 centrally-controlled mega-departments.

This happened due to the passage of the Police Act of 1964 (ironically by a "Conservative" government). Basically what happened is that the Labour Party majority on the Nottingham City Police watch committee removed the Nottingham police chief Athelstan Popkess, because they felt that he was persecuting Labour Party politicians for their left-wing beliefs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athelstan_Popkess


The Labour Party majority on the Nottingham City Police watch committee voted to remove Popkess, so of course the Conservatives went full retard and passed a law giving the central British government control of the police. (Sounds a lot like the short-sighted fools who want Trump to seize control of local police so they can gloat about it on Facebook).

The new law, called the Police Act of 1964, gave the British Home Secretary (their version of the Secretary of Homeland Security) the power to appoint and fire police chiefs and senior police officials, and also the power to force police departments to merge.

The Conservatives lost the election that same year (1964), and the new Labour Party Home Secretary (Roy Jenkins) proceeded to immediately force city and country police departments to merge into huge mega-departments.


These police mega-departments (which are gradually being consolidated even further) are controlled by the central British government. The chiefs and senior officers of the mega-departments answer to the British Home Secretary (their version of the Secretary of Homeland Security).

Since 2013, each police department has a locally elected "Police and Crime Commissioner" but they have little real power or influence. Their main purpose is to trick British voters into thinking they have some control over their local police.

But in reality, all of the British police mega-departments answer to the central British government, which is why the British government can use them to arrest people for "hate speech", telling the truth about Muslims gang-raping a million little White girls, criticizing LBGTQXYZ on Twitter, etc.


This should be a lesson for any American conservatives who may be tempted to support the federalization of the American police. Remember: Trump won't be POTUS forever, and the next Democrat President will use the federally-controlled police system to persecute gun owners, Christians, patriots, and conservatives.


A centrally controlled police system is a very, very bad idea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
538 Posts
The UK does not have a national police force. The have territorial police, as well as specialized police such as the Transport Police or the Civil Nuclear Constabulary.

While they (England and Wales) don't have a national police force, their police forces are all ultimately controlled by the Home Secretary (their version of the Secretary of Homeland Security).

England has 39 mega-departments, and Wales has 4. All of these are controlled by the central British government through the Home Secretary.

As I mentioned in my post above, since 2013 there has been an elected "Police and Crime Commissioner" for each police department, but these have very little real power and mainly serve to trick the British people into thinking they have a say over their police.

The real power over the police mega-departments in England and Wales is held by the Home Secretary.

Additionally, while England and Wales have 43 separate police mega-departments in name, in practice many of these police mega-departments are partially merged (for example, some have joint call centers, some have joint firearms teams, some have joint traffic enforcement teams, some have joint detective/CID departments).


In Scotland, there has been a single centrally-controlled police department (ridiculously named "Police Scotland") since 2013. Police Scotland answers to the Scottish Justice Secretary.


In Northern Ireland, there is a single police force called the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) which answers to the Secretary of Northern Ireland.


The British Transport Police answers to the Secretary of Transport.

The Civil Nuclear Constabulary (despite being mostly privately funded by nuclear power plant operators) answers to the Secretary of Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.

The Ministry of Defence Police (which operates in England, Wales and Scotland, but not Northern Ireland) answers to the Secretary of Defence.

So ultimately, all of the British police forces are centrally controlled.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
538 Posts
No communist or dictatorship government has local police.

The average American takes for granted the privilege it is to be police by members of their own community and not soldiers or federal agents like the rest of the world.


Well said.


Unfortunately, there are some short-sighted, immature and foolish "conservatives" who are enthusiastically wanting to destroy our traditional locally-controlled LE system, just so they can gloat on Facebook about a few Antifa losers being put in jail.
 

·
Watcher.
Joined
·
40,089 Posts
APD/28801 just had their budget cut by $770k.'08.
 
21 - 40 of 40 Posts
Top