Is that even legal?

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by knoxvegasdaddy, Mar 31, 2020.

  1. knoxvegasdaddy

    knoxvegasdaddy UBER VOL !!!

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    https://www.fox5ny.com/news/3-municipalities-join-newark-lockdown-cops-issuing-summonses


    NEWARK, N.J. - Police in Newark have written nearly 200 summonses to people congregating on the streets and also shut down several businesses that violated the city and state's rules during the coronavirus pandemic.

    Mayor Ras Baraka said that cops in Newark and neighboring East Orange, Orange, and Irvington are stepping up enforcement on residents and businesses that break the lockdown rules and will file criminal charges against repeat offenders. They will also stop people from travelling from between the municipalities, the mayor said.

    4949? Thoughts?
     
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  2. Pandaz3

    Pandaz3

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    I think it will be found unlawful, but I am not a scholar.
     
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  3. vista461

    vista461

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    By us the state sent out the statute to enforce the stay at home order under. But I don’t know anyone that’s done it yet.
     
  4. Joe King

    Joe King

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    Most states have laws that allow law enforcement to respond during times of disasters. Their definition of disaster may be quite broad allowing it to be applied rather liberally.
     
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  5. billorights

    billorights

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    Not surprising in a state that won't even allow a person to pump their own gas.
     
  6. DAKA

    DAKA

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    These days I WISH someone would pump gas for me...pump handles are gross, where has that hand been...? (I use a glove, always have)
     
  7. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    It is unlikely these actions would survive a court challenge if anyone chose to take it that far. Any decent attorney would argue a violation of civil rights including the argument that the states actions constituted an unlawful seizure in restricting their clients movement/liberty.

    As it stands the most likely case to reach court will likely be the dumb ass FL. Sheriff that arrested a pastor for holding church services.

    And it was not the pastor of some podunk church either. It was the pastor of a mega church who has the financial resources to hire top notch legal talent and go the distance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
  8. wprebeck

    wprebeck Have you seen me?

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    Yeah, I saw that one. While I don't agree with the actions of the church leader, the Constitution addresses this issue specifically.

    Our church canceled in-person services, like most have done. The leadership does stream things live on FB for those who wish to watch. But, to officially restrict worship is a very touchy subject. After all, the Pilgrims came to this land seeking religious freedom. The very first amendment in our Constitution deals with the rights to practice religion as we see fit and to peacefully assemble.

    While science and common sense tell us to stay away from public gatherings as much as possible - it seems to me that the simple declaration of an emergency and orders from wanna-be despots should not be enough to override the Constitution. If that's the case, freedom no longer longer exists in this country and dictatorship is merely awaiting the right "emergency" to take over.

    I'm not denying the fact that we are in a serious situation on the medical front. The data suggest that our infrastructure could be easily overwhelmed. I am suggesting that there should be some limitations to these powers that have come to light. No single person should have the ability to "declare" an "emergency" and then be allowed to direct confiscation of private goods without due process, forcibly evict people, prohibit guns and ammunition sales/ownership/possession, restrict public gatherings, and close whatever business he/she desires.

    While the general public seems to enjoy being told things like that, I take issue with it. One person, with no accountability at all, can make those decisions and instruct police to enforce them as if they were law. That's pretty much the definition of a dictator.

    There has to be a happy medium somewhere, or protections installed in the law for the citizenry. Yes, I know my concerns sound like far-fetched drama, but more than one country has fallen from freedom to being ruled by a despot due to similar situations. We are in a country that has now seen tremendous support for an open Communist to be elected as President. Many of our society no longer wish to be free and desire the government to tell them how to live from cradle to grave. The current state of our country - a pandemic combined with a very large number of communists and socialists - could indeed be a turning point for the nation and her freedom. Let's hope that common sense prevails, people stay home of their own accord, and these "emergency powers" are looked at closely with an eye toward oversight.
     
  9. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

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    Kind of like confiscating guns during Katrina, this may spur some legislative based limitations after the fact based on how it goes.

    Courts are to slow to help, by the time it works its way through the system, lockdown will be lifted and the case probably ruled moot, right?

    Randy


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    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
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  10. papajohn

    papajohn

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    In a nutshell, yes......... (this is how it is written here in CT)

    Title 28 - Civil Preparedness and Emergency Services
    Chapter 517 - Civil Preparedness, Emergency Management and Homeland Security

    Sec. 28-22 - Penalty.
    Any person who... wilfully impedes, interferes with or otherwise obstructs any lawful civil preparedness activity or other preparedness function of the national or state government or of the government of any political subdivision of the state, or who violates any provision of this chapter, shall be guilty of a class D felony.

    Title 19a - Public Health and Well-Being
    Chapter 368a - Department of Public Health

    Sec. 19a-131a - Declaration of public health emergency by Governor.

    (d) Any individual who, during the course of a public health emergency declared under this section, violates the provisions of any order issued pursuant to sections 19a-131 to 19a-131i, inclusive, or who intentionally obstructs, resists, hinders or endangers any person who is authorized to carry out, and who is engaged in an activity that carries out, any of the provisions of the order shall be fined not more than one thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than one year, or both, for each violation.


    The goal of such is to attempt compliance and education of the public corresponding to these actions and statutes. Positive enforcement can be utilized for repeated noncompliance.


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  11. M7425

    M7425

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    Could be. The big dependencies are the up-stream section of the applicable state law, how the executive order is written, and interpretation by prosecutor’s office/District Attorney/Commonwealth’s Attorney.

    Practically speaking, the result will be the same- the gathering will be dispersed. Any adjudication for the alleged will be months down the road due to the abundant backlog of hearings in the General District and Circuit courts. Any underlaying civil rights issues will be decided many more months thereafter.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
  12. Tvov

    Tvov

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    But then you get into more weirdness, depending on the language the governor uses in all this. So far in Connecticut (it may have changed recently), it is just "recommendations" and "requests" for people to "reduce" travel and to stay in their homes. The closing of businesses was an "order", I think and guess?

    It is very confusing with the legalities and language that the government is using.

    After this is all over, I think some more straightforward policies will be put in place.
     
  13. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

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    I think they don’t care if it’s legal as long as it works at this point. As long as everyone pretends it’s legal, acts like it’s legal, it gets done under color of law.

    Courts will short it out later and they’ll go, oops, my bad, better luck next time.

    Did the Katrina people ever get their guns back as an aside? I don’t think they were keeping track so I doubt most did.

    Not so different than anything that was common before courts ruled against it. Like suddenly getting Miranda rights. Only a matter of speed and degree in this case.

    Was Lincoln suspending habeas corpus legal? The phrase “Constitution is not a suicide pact” covers a variety of sins and is ripe for abuse.

    Randy


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  14. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    The current goings on gives anyone looking a clear indicator of what the left wants, gun confiscation, restrictions on assembly if they don't like the people or reason for their assembly, and absolute dictatorial power over the economy.

    All they need is a convenient "emergency".
     
  15. collim1

    collim1 5ft of fury. The champ is back!

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    Same here.

    I won’t touch it.
     
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  16. ateamer

    ateamer NRA4EVR

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    That's exactly what's going on. It's sickening how many people who claim to be patriots are applauding the clampdown.

    Our governor just gave in. So much for DeSantis having a pair.

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  17. jimcorbin

    jimcorbin

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    You described Ohio’s Health Director Amy Acton. She is making all the decisions and Dewine is following them. Although his is cut from the same cloth as her. She is known for being anti 2A, pro abortion, and pro socialized medicine. IMO she is very dangerous.
     
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  18. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

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    But you guys would just be following ord.....

    Oops, nevermind..

    Randy
     
  19. knoxvegasdaddy

    knoxvegasdaddy UBER VOL !!!

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    that’s a finely worded, well crafted law...

    which does not supersede the Constitution of the United States.

    The govt. CAN say “you can’t over there, there’s a problem over there”. Happens all the time. Flooded roads are a fine example.

    The govt. can’t tell me I can’t get AWAY from the flood. If it sucks here, I can always go somewhere else.
     
  20. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

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    One thing the leftist have always known, most people will willingly surrender their freedom for what they perceive to "safety and security".

    That is why the left agenda is always to foster fear and instability to promote a demand for "security".
     
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