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Is society failing men, starting from elementary school?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by mr00jimbo, May 29, 2012.

  1. mr00jimbo

    mr00jimbo

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    I'm 25 years old, and it seems as if people my age were subject to some sort of social engineering project gone horribly wrong, when I was in high school, elementary school and to this day.

    When I was in elementary school, all the boys loved roughousing, making noise, and playing "gun" with a stick, Lego, or anything that would loosely resemble one to engage our imagination. I played with capguns, dart guns, brought a battery-powered pistol that made quite unrealistic blasting noises to show and tell one time. I was scolded for the teacher for doing that, I do recall.

    When I was in the single-digit ages, in my carefree elementary school days, I noticed two things: the girls constantly received higher grades than boys, and boys were constantly getting into more trouble.

    So why is that? Are boys just more prone to trouble-making, or did the school system interpret roughousing, competitiveness and just being a boy, as a threat that needed to be surpressed and medicated?
    Testosterone, the hormone that all boys get more of, starting in puberty, is responsible for aggression, which could be channeled into creativity and competitiveness. Instead, when boys could not sit still in school, they were diagnosed as having learning disorders and perscribed drugs to "keep them under control."

    Fastforward to high school graduation. Women are more likely to go to and graduate from, college. I even see typical male agencies like policing doing their best to attract women applicants, including preferential hiring. But typical female positions like nursing do not afford a potential male student any sort of incentive, despite the enrollment being overwhelmingly female.

    So what ends up happening? Men are losing positions of power. An overwhelming majority of homeless and incarcerated people are men. Most college graduates are women. And yet society can't bend over backwards enough to help women out, while kicking men to the side like a disease.
    How can a rediculous amount of people I see sleeping on the streets be male, and the government pushes for more female-only social housing? How can the majority of people who end up in jail or end their own lives be men, and society turns around and only want to help women?
    Something seems seriously wrong with this picture.

    I blame a few things. One thing I have to blame is the fact that there are men who impregnate a woman and bail out on her, leaving her to raise the child solo. When the child grows up, he does not have a positive role model.
    A lot of the time the man is not man enough to stick around and raise his child, his responsibility.
    Then other times, a man is deprived through biased court systems of time with his own children.

    I also blame social engineering, which seems to despise men and is constantly holding them back and telling them that what they feel in their aggression, sexual desire and competitiveness is wrong. They need to be "more in touch with their feelings".

    Girls are encouraged to exceed and be cut-throat, and men to be sensitive and in touch with themselves. So the incentives to get women into trades and colleges means a lot of powerful women (don't get me wrong, that's not a bad thing, but you can't hold guys back on purpose and wonder why they fail.
    The city next to mine has a few year ban on hiring white men as firemen. You cannot apply if you're a white man. But if you're a female minority, especially from a rich family, you could waltz right in and have a job while I coudn't even get in the door.

    What I personally observe:
    -More women I know getting their licence while males riding a bicycle and refusing to get their own licence/own car. I see a lot of girls driving their licenceless boyfriends around.
    -When I tell people I shoot guns, the only people who tend to want to come along are women. Women are very interested to learn how to fire a gun and gun ownership. The people who're telling me, "guns are bad" tend to be whiny men, though I do see a lot of guys at the range, must be a hipster thing.
    -Most of the people i know who are unemployed or underemployed are guys.

    Here's the thing: You have nobody to blame but yourself if you're being surprassed academically or financially by women...to an extend. I think it's complete BS that men are being engineering from a young age to be second-class citizens and women are being told to "go get 'em"
    I mean, how would one feel if he tried to get a certain job and was denied because of his sex?

    I definitely am trying to do my part to be successful, educated and not buy into the whole feminism thing that I'm somehow more advantaged and should realize that.

    Just a thought....
     
  2. Huaco Kid

    Huaco Kid

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    Watch the commercial where the husband is looking in the refrigerator for a snack. After he gets yelled at, by his wife, and jumps back cowering, she tricks him into eat a granola bar.

    If our country actually needs an Army, a few generations from now...

    good luck with that.
     

  3. MtBaldy

    MtBaldy Obie Wan, RIP

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    As someone who spent a couple of years in middle school classrooms about ten years ago I can say the girls were definitely better behaved and better students. Not all of them of course but most of them. So much so that one little miscreant on his way to the principal's office blurted out on his way through the door, "It's not fair. How come you never pick on the girls?", to which I replied, "The girls don't act like you".
     
  4. Al Czervik

    Al Czervik

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    Yes, without a doubt, our boys that attend public school are being systematically wussified, and essentially neutered.
    Huaco's army comment QFT.
     
  5. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    You're joking, right?

    In a statistical sense, you are.

    I'm 30. No one "engineered" me to be any which way. I am the man I am because I chose to be.
     
  6. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    The "doofy husband" theme in commercials has been around for a LONG time.

    Women get pigeonholed in commercials, too. I just saw a commercial where the mom spends the entire commercial working (coming home from work, cleaning the house, making dinner) while her husband sits on the couch. Advertising isn't really a good place to look for societal cues.
     
  7. Detectorist

    Detectorist

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    When I was in elementary and HS, kids would fight but the Police were never called.

    Now days, they can be charged with a felony for bring a pocket knife to school, something we all did back then.
     
  8. Rabbi

    Rabbi The Bombdiggity Lifetime Member

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    No kidding.

    In spite of any real or imagined *forces* against you, You either do something or your dont. The will to be a champion/alpha/man/whatever is not something that can be given to you OR taken away. You can damned well learn to hone it and/or hide it but you have to have the grit within you to be such a person.

    No matter what you want to do in life, there will aways be someone(s) against it. F them.

    life is a game, learn the rules and play (HARD) to win. Understand there is very little room at the top of a pyramid. It cant work any other way.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2012
  9. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    It is possible that my PhD will somewhat related to the relationship between the concentration of female classroom elementary educators and the occurrence of behavioral issues in males in said environment, with careful contrast placed on environments where the early educator is predominantly male.

    As a budding educator myself, and having raised, or in the process of raising more than "a few" men, I cannot help but observe the frequency and consistency within which the female educator dominated classroom environments display higher incidents of behavioral issues in young boys compared to girls, and a disconcerting LACK of similar frequency or severity in male dominated educator classroom environments.

    Understandably my own experiences may be considered purely anecdotal...but I have seen enough to make casual inferences that boys in female educator driven classroomsgenerate more reported issues of behavioral/attention deficit concerns than boys in predominantly male educator environments.
     
  10. Flying-Dutchman

    Flying-Dutchman

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    If the game is unfair, don’t play it. Start your own business.

    As for the commercials where the man is always the dork, point this out to all in your sphere of influence so this awareness is ingrained, and then don’t buy the product.

    As for the wussification of males, this is a tiny problem from what previous generations had to endure and the reason is because we have it too easy.

    You have the opportunity to influence your kids, grand-kids to counter what they are taught in school. It is rewarding to influence their open minds. Your actions teach them more than your words.
     
  11. Detectorist

    Detectorist

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    The main issue may not be female educators but single parent households. I think kids, in general, have a much higher probability of becoming a successful contributor to society if they are the product of a 2 parent home.

    We are trying, out of necessity, to make the government a substitute for parents. it ain't working.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2012
  12. KalashniKEV

    KalashniKEV

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    Wow... that long victim rant was too much for me after the third or fourth word...

    "Is society failing men?"

    What the hell kind of a question is that? Failing? How?
    What were you expecting to "get?"

    Are we "failing" our homeless?

    Are we "failing" the earth?

    Slap yourself.
     
  13. M&P Shooter

    M&P Shooter Metal Member

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    Kids today are real men:whistling:
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Gallium

    Gallium CLM

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    I completely endorse the idea that single parent (ie, mom only) households are a factor...but where I live, GENERALLY, most of the kids are being raised by 2 or more parents (lots of divorce with lots of step moms).

    I am still a ways off from my terminal degree, but having raised a couple of men, and in the process of raising some more, I see what I see. :cool:
     
  15. Detectorist

    Detectorist

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    :rofl::rofl:
     
  16. aplcr0331

    aplcr0331

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    Unsheltered Homeless (2009) (Source)
    Women - 12,000 - 4%
    Men - 240,000 - 96%

    Life Expectancy (2006) (Source)
    Women - 80.8 Years
    Men - 75.7 Years

    Suicides (2008) (Source)
    Women - 7,585 - 19%
    Men - 28,450 - 81%

    Deaths by Homicide (2004) (Source)
    Women - 3,856 - 20%
    Men - 14,717 - 80%

    Deaths from Cancer (2004) (Source)
    Women - 269,819
    Men - 290,069

    Deaths from HIV/AIDS (2004) (Source)
    Women - 3,357
    Men - 8,756

    Federal Funds for Sex Specific Cancer Research (Source)
    Women - Breast Cancer - $631,000,000 - 40,000 Deaths
    Men - Prostate Cancer - $300,000,000 - 33,000 Deaths

    Deaths on the Job (2010) (Source)
    Women - 355 - 7%
    Men - 4,192 - 93%

    Injuries on the Job (2007) (Source)
    Women - 36%
    Men - 64%

    College Enrollment (2009) (Source)
    Women - 58% - 11,658,000
    Men - 42% - 8,770,000

    Affirmative Action Education Programs (Gender Specific) (Source)
    Women - Yes
    Men - No

    Unemployment Rates (2010) (Source)
    Women - 8.6% - 6,199,000
    Men - 10.5% - 8,626,000

    Average Hours Worked Per Week (2010) (Source)
    Women - 36.1
    Men - 40.2

    High School Graduation Rates (2005) (Source)
    Women - 72%
    Men - 65%

    Incarceration Rates (2009) (Source)
    Women - 114,979 - 7%
    Men - 1,502,49 - 93%

    Child Custody Rates (Source)
    Women - 11,268,000 custodial mothers
    Men - 2,907,000 custodial fathers

    US Military Deaths From 1950 - 2010 (Sources) (2) (3)
    Women - 139 - 0.001%
    Men - 100,063 - 99.99%

    Federally Funded Battered Shelters (Source)
    Women - 2,000+ $300,000,000 per year
    Men - None - $0

    Federally Funded Health Offices and Research 1970 - Present (not including cancer research) Source)
    Women Only - Office, Projects and Programs 70+ - Funds - $100,000,000,000
    Men Only - None - $0

    Forced Selective Service
    Women - No
    Men - Yes

    Drug and Alcohol Addiction and Abuse Rates (2010) (Source)
    Women - 5.8%
    Men - 12.2%
     
  17. Mister_Beefy

    Mister_Beefy Legal & Proper

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    I get what you're saying, and I don't disagree, but some people see things a bit differently.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d77mMXahsME"]TEDxWomen -- Jennifer Siebel Newsom - YouTube[/ame]
     
  18. Dexters

    Dexters

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    There are a few ways you can look at this.

    One is that men/boys are not considered a 'victim class' they are the victimizers (unless they are can be fit into a victim class e.g. bullied or gay). They do not have advocates representing them in schools, government etc. Whereas, victim classes have advocates at most levels. As you point out, more women are entering college then men. The of women entering college is above where the men/women ratio was when the women's movement began.

    If you are a black man/boy the failure you talk about is much greater.

    Another is that the qualities of women are now more highly prized - e.g. verbal skills and collaboration.

    Also, consider how 'men' are portrayed by Hollywood and on TV. In the past they were held in esteem for their strength, courage and analytical skills. Now, they are wusses or evil.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2012
  19. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    Gender of rape victims(2004)(Source)
    Women - 91%
    Men - 9%

    Median wages for full time, year round employees (2009)(Source)
    Women - $36,278
    Men - $47,127

    Gender of Fortune 500 CEOs (2011)(Source)
    Women - 3%
    Men - 97%

    Isolated data points are just that--data points. I'm sure we could both make lists like this miles long.

    Although you do have an excellent point about the breast cancer thing. I've read that donating money to breast cancer research actually destroys value now; they have more money than they know how to spend.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2012
  20. cowboywannabe

    cowboywannabe you savvy?

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    fathers are the blame for sissy boys.