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Is my G19 gen 4 a "lemon"?

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by ace4059, Oct 20, 2010.

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  1. ace4059

    ace4059

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    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Please Read this[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The "04 spring will not be ready to the general public until Mid to late November. Please do not call Glock until that time frame asking for the spring.
    Thank You
    Ryan
    [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]PLEASE READ POST #34 Before Proceeding. [/FONT]It explains it better.


    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    I purchased a new Glock G19 Gen 4 the last week of September. I own five Gen 3 Glocks (G17, G20, G27, G30, G32) and have never experienced a problem with them. They work perfect every time. This new Gen 4, I have, has had nothing but problems. My gen 3 glocks, it does not matter, I can shoot it weak handed, two handed, strong handed, and they perform flawlessly with ANY ammo I put through them.

    My Gen 4 G19 must be a lemon. I have "shot" 950-1000 rounds through it and it will malfunction at least once per 15 rd magazine. It jams, stove pipes, Failure to feed, on average 1 in 10 to 1 in 15 rds. When it does not jam, it throws the casings erratically. It mainly throws the shell casing directly in my face. On occasion, when it doesn't throw it directly in my face, it will shoot it out to the LEFT, or IN front of the barrel. It very rarely will throw it to the right, like it should.

    Yesterday, I contacted Glock and they said they are working on new "weaker" revised recoil spring assembly, but it will not be available until at least Mid to late November. (see update at bottom of page)

    I have tried several types of ammo. I have used WWB, Federal, Monarch, Blazer AL, Black Hills, Corbon, Winchester NATO, Fiocchi and Speer. I have tried the hotter loads of +p and the NATO, but I still experience the same problems with all the different ammo, and will all three magazines. Mainly now, with the hotter ammo, it doesn't FTE as often, but it will throw it right back in my face/eyes. I cant remember if I mentioned in this post if I changed out the ejector, but I did, and it had no effect with it throwing the casing in my face.

    I have read on here where the spring is too strong so I have spent several nights "racking" the slide back and forth. I have done this over 2000 times.

    I even tried GlockWorx aftermarket tungsten guide rod with adapter, and their blue and red recoil springs. I tried their ejector because they said it would throw the casing to the right. But it still throws it back in my face, and it still jams. I even tried gen 3 guide rod and spring from my G32 with the adapter and it still malfunctions. I tried new gen 4 revised "02" recoil spring for the G17 and it just stuck out about a 1/4" in the front. It would still jams with that. The only way I could get it to NOT jam was to use a Gen 3 G17 poly guide rod and G17 gen 3 recoil spring. It did not jam with the G17 Gen 3 spring and rod, but it still ejects the shell casing into my face.

    Here is a link to a youtube video of the slow motion shell ejections and I think this is what mine is doing. Start watching at 2-1/2 mins for the ejecting problems.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkHEdNx0Mk4

    Attached are some photos of my actual jams. I literally have hundreds of photos of it jamming, but these are just a few. Notice on the last photo, the shell casing is flipped 180 degrees.

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    GOOD NEWS. I called glock back today because I was going to send my pistol back and Fred said you wont believe what I got today. He said he just received the prototype (see post #34) in for the Gen 4 G19. So he shipped me out one today. I should receive it about Monday or so. Hopefully it will fix my problems I have been having. I am keeping my fingers crossed. Ill keep yall updated.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2010
  2. THE_PUNISHER

    THE_PUNISHER

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    Thank you! I will call Fred tomorrow.
     

  3. thunderstrike

    thunderstrike

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    Hope the new spring will fix it for you.

    My G21 RTF2 sometimes throws casing to my wife. I hate that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2010
  4. Dingus

    Dingus

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    I suspect your problem is that blasted new trigger bar rubbing the slide and not your recoil spring assembly.
     
  5. TxGun

    TxGun

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    Very likely the new recoil spring will fix your problem. Wait for that.
     
  6. G33

    G33 Frisky! CLM Millennium Member

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    New springs are probably adjusted for 9mm rather than .40.
    Glock Inc. should have known.
    :supergrin:
     
  7. THE_PUNISHER

    THE_PUNISHER

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    I just got off of the phone with a glock tech and he said that they are expecting the new springs in 3 weeks???? Are they really in or was this glock tech uninformed???? Should I call back and ask for Fred? Are they out of the new springs already? I am confused.....:dunno:
     
  8. Dingus

    Dingus

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    Fred also said about 3 weeks.
     
  9. vmann

    vmann Controller

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    lets hope this fixes the problem...until then, only gen 3 glocks for me....
     
  10. Dingus

    Dingus

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    You know, I don't consider the Gen4 G19 a problem. I've had mine since late August and it runs on everything I've tried so far: Winchester USA 115-gr FMJ, American Eagle 124-gr FMJ, Sellier & Bellot 115-gr FMJ, Blazer 115-gr FMJ, Magtech 115-gr FMJ, Federal HST 124-gr +P JHP. I've shot strong hand and weak hand supported as well as strong hand and weak hand unsupported.
     
  11. doneroman

    doneroman SheepDogs-R-Us

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    Are you shooting re-loads? That one jam pic looks like there's a new primer in a really old casing.

    Try NOT to use aftermarket parts as a "fix". I would highly recommend taking the Armorer's Course or having someone who is AC certified to tear it down with you. I have an educated guess what it is, but that's just a shot in the dark, long distance.
     
  12. Gary1911A1

    Gary1911A1

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    Could the OP look for wear on the inside of the slide to check for this?
     
  13. Rusty Shackleford

    Rusty Shackleford mmhmm

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    My experience with Glock, Inc is that you'll get a different answer from every "tech" you speak to. When you point this out to the tech you're currently speaking with, he'll tell you the last person to whom you spoke was misinformed.

    It's frustrating not being able to get a simple answer to a simple question from the "pros."
     
  14. CA_DUDE

    CA_DUDE Dude here.

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    I concur. People are going on about this like Glock has completely ruined the Gen 4's. People complained about the other generations that they weren't built to handle the .40. Glock has beefed-up the recoil system in response. In my opinion the 19 is just over sprung a bit. Not only is the spring heavier, it's a dual spring setup. Dual springs greatly reduce slide velocity as it approaches the rear. This would account for the seeming weak ejection or FTE's. A simple spring tweak by Glock should alleviate the issues. Nothing else has really changed. Chamber dimensions and feed angle are all the same. Block will make it right and the hysteria will end. Then we can go back to debating important issues like pig-noses and grip plugs.
     
  15. windplex

    windplex

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    Ace thank you for the in depth analysis of the issues you have experienced. I hope techs at Glock are reading this.

    It does show that making a reliable pistol is not an easy thing. Does make me wonder why certain changes -- presumably upgrades -- were made to the gen 4 springs and internals when the gen 3 seemed to be a reliable weapon -- please correct me if I am wrong on that.

    I am particularly interested since Glocks grip is not ideal for me but its reliability is -- so gen 4 is what I hope to transition to from my current glocks once the bugs are worked out.

    I worked in R&D and am a bit surprised that this was not caught by Glock before products were shipped. Was glock overly concerned about losing LE market share to guns with interchangeable grips that it decided to make a fix during the production run ala the big three auto makers of the past -- let the customers work out the bugs for you during the first three years of production? I hope this does not foreshadow a change in Glock's MO going forward. I wold lose confidence it they go this way.
     
  16. windplex

    windplex

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    "Simple fix" begs the question why they released the product with these problems.

    I ran an R&D department. This gives me pause. Glock tests. Why release this product with this issue???
     
  17. windplex

    windplex

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    Superb documentation and testing of different loads! Did you send it all to Glock? I am guessing you did. If not please do so. This is pure gold for a R& D department.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2010
  18. CA_DUDE

    CA_DUDE Dude here.

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    Why does any product get released and then show issues? Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world. Realistically, most of us realize that a new product no matter how well engineered, may show some issues when actually fielded. It's happened with most new gun designs, and many are just small adjustments needed. Also, not every gun is having these issues. It seem like it on GT, but I bet if you looked at the numbers, it is a very small group of guns with the issue. It's not like guns are KB'ing or parts are breaking. I'm sure we all feel that an auto should be 100% reliable, but if that was an easy thing to accomplish, wouldn't they all be 100%? There is a fine balance in the engineering. And even though many of the older Glocks run with a wide variety of ammo types, this isn't the norm. If you put a middle of the road spring in a gun, performance becomes less reliable on the high and low. I think once Glock gets the right spring in the 19's, it should run like the older gen's. All I'm saying is give Glock a chance to iron it out, don't be all gloom & doom.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2010
  19. Bruce M

    Bruce M

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    At the risk of seeming argumentative, I wonder if Glock knew of a problem. I have to think that it might be difficult to ascertain a problem like this. Many seem to function ok. Some do not. How many production guns can they reasonably fire before they start shipping the production guns. How many rounds can they fire from those guns. My guess is that it is much easier to run a million rounds through a few thousand guns by shipping them than it would be at the factory.
     
  20. Dingus

    Dingus

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    Glock normally tests 24 prototype pistols, 25,000 rounds each. Glock Tech's in Smyrna also test each new pistol 5 rounds before shipping. When pistols are returned with a reported problem, they are inspected, repaired and test fired before being returned to the owner.

    Now the only problem with this testing is that it is done by the most experienced Glock shooters in Austria and the USA. Each tech person fires several hundred rounds a day, 5 days a week, and all display picture perfect grip, stance and posture. Perhaps Glock should used inexperienced, off-the-street people to test fire their pistols.