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Featured Is 10mm Really Better Than .357 Magnum??

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by Rocketsteve, Oct 27, 2017.

  1. Rocketsteve

    Rocketsteve Army Vet Silver Member

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    Is 10mm really better than .357 Magnum??


    I've been noticing a lot of discussion on this subject and a lot of claims as to the superior abilities of the hallowed 10mm round for use against large and dangerous wildlife. The claims that the 10mm is wholly superior to the .357 magnum inspired me to do a bit of research on the subject.

    I've collected information from Buffalo Bore, Underwood, and DoubleTap, since these three are big players in the hunting ammo arena. I haven't been able to find any ballistics info for a 6” barrel magnum revolver, but the ballistic info for the S&W Model 27 will give some idea of what kind of velocities could be expected from a slightly longer barrel. Here's what I was able to find:

    357 Magnum:


    Buffalo Bore 180gr LFN:

    Advertised - 1400 fps/783 ft lbs
    S&W Model 27 (5” bbl) – 1398 fps/781 ft lbs (Taken from BB website)


    Buffalo Bore 158gr JHP:

    Advertised – 1475 fps/763 ft lbs
    S&W Model 27 (5” bbl) – 1457 fps/745 ft lbs (Taken from BB website)


    Underwood 180gr LFN: Advertised – 1400 fps/783 ft lbs


    10 mm:


    Buffalo Bore 220gr LFN:

    Advertised – 1200 fps/703 ft lbs
    G20 (4.6” bbl) – 1140 fps/635 ft lbs (Taken from BB website)


    Buffalo Bore 200gr FMJ:

    Advertised – 1200 fps/639 ft lbs
    G20 (4.6” bbl) – 1198 fps/637 ft lbs (Taken from BB website)


    Buffalo Bore 180gr JHP:

    Advertised – 1350 fps/728 ft lbs
    G20 (4.6” bbl) – 1331 fps/708 ft lbs (Taken from BB website)


    Underwood 220gr LFN: Advertised – 1200 fps/703 ft lbs


    Underwood 200gr LFN: Advertised – 1250 fps/694 ft lbs


    Underwood 180gr XTP: Advertised – 1300 fps/676 ft lbs


    DoubleTap 230gr LFN: Advertised – 1120 fps/641 ft lbs


    DoubleTap 200gr LFN: Advertised – 1300 fps/750 ft lbs (**Close or equal to .357 ballistics)


    DoubleTap 180gr JHP: Advertised – 1305 fps/681 ft lbs




    Since I have a 6” barrel .357 handgun, I decided to look for reviews and ballistic information for the G40, since it has a 6.02” barrel, which should provide better ballistics than the G20's 4.6” barrel. I attached links to the websites that reviewed the G40:

    G40 (6.02” bbl):


    Buffalo Bore 180gr JHP: 1445 fps/834 ft lbs (**Exceeds .357 ballistics)

    http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=3604


    Sig Elite 180gr FMJ: 1239 fps/614 ft lbs

    Fed Vital Shok 180gr JSP: 1319 fps/695 ft lbs

    https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2016/2/19/hardware-glock-g40-gen4-mos/


    Fed Trophy Bond 180gr: 1289 fps/664 ft lbs

    https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/12/17/review-glock-g40-gen4-mos-pistol/


    So there it is. From what I can see, there are only a couple of commercial options that will allow the 10mm to best a .357 magnum, even when using the G40 Glock.

    Based on what I can see, the .357 looks like the winner in the “Higher-Energy on Target” race.


    So, are the “alleged” higher 10mm velocities coming from those who make their own special handloads? Is that the answer or is there something else that I'm missing?
     
  2. Benchrst

    Benchrst Ban Hamster

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    But the 10 is bigger :)
     

  3. Rocketsteve

    Rocketsteve Army Vet Silver Member

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    Yes, yes it is...
     
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  4. Benchrst

    Benchrst Ban Hamster

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    :)

    I load for both, and both are great cartridges that do as intended.
     
  5. quigley45

    quigley45

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    Rocketsteve, I had noticed the same thing. I also looked at reloads and the 357 really wins in most scenarios. The big advantage to the 10mm is amount of rounds that you have with a Glock. I have seen a lot of claims that the 10mm is equal to a 41 magnum and that isn’t even close
     
  6. Rocketsteve

    Rocketsteve Army Vet Silver Member

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    So, are you loading a lot hotter than the commercial loads out there?
     
  7. Rocketsteve

    Rocketsteve Army Vet Silver Member

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    I will give the "win" to the 10mm when it comes to the total round count.
     
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  8. Benchrst

    Benchrst Ban Hamster

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    A bit warmer, yes, but not anywhere near nuclear. I'm careful with my ladders, and know when to stop.

    15rnds of big meplat 200gr has it's uses, do I consider a G20 as strong as a Blackhawk?

    Nope :)
     
  9. Benchrst

    Benchrst Ban Hamster

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    10mm gets into 41 mag territory. It's equal, no way, at least not with sane pressures.
     
  10. Keith Pierson

    Keith Pierson Exploring Alternate Routes

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    Is 10mm really better than .357 Magnum??

    No.
     
  11. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665

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    Loaded to full potential, the 10mm does exceed the 357 by a little.

    But you're not going to do it with Federal ammo.

    Then there's the barrel length disparity... The wheel gun has a full 6"barrel, plus the chamber which likely puts it somewhere near 7" overall... The Glock has a 6" barrel, but loses about an inch to the chamber being included in the measurement.

    So in essence, you're comparing a vented (the cylinder gap) 7" barrel to a non vented 6" barrel.

    The 2 rounds are close in power...

    My G40 has a full 7" barrel, and can send 200 grain bullets at 1,365 fps (824 ft. lbs) using published data...

    I do not load it that hot though, hard on the brass, the gun, and my wrists.... And very loud.

    200's at 1,300 fps is a nice sedate, and accurate, load... That has the power and trajectory for 100 yard hunting.

    Sighted in 1" high at 25 yards... The bullet is never more than 1.75" above or below the line of sight to 100 yards, and it only drops 12" at 150 yards (that is useable with a red dot sight).

    I have both a 10mm and a 357, both are great... But I prefer the 10mm... I've never been much of a revolver guy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
  12. Borg Warner

    Borg Warner

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    Is 10mm really better than .357 Magnum??

    In a word, no. Ballistically for all practical purposes they're about equal. But even though I have been shooting DA revolvers in the DA mode for many years, I'm more accurate with rapid fire with my Glock 20SF than I am with either of my beloved Smith and Wessons in 357 and 41 magnum.

    As a result, And also because of the ammo capacity advantage, my choice for a woods gun is a 10mm Glock Model 20SF loaded with 16 rounds of the Underwood 220gr LFN even though the 41 magnum is much more powerful than either the 10mm or the 357 magnum and would be the undisputed winner of the “Higher-Energy on Target” race.

    Here is the Underwood data for the 41 magnum:
    265 grain Lead Wide Long Nose Gas Check
    • Muzzle Velocity:1350 fps
    • Muzzle Energy: 1072 fpe
     
  13. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    So, they are equal in power.

    But the 10mm holds more.

    But the .357 mag will shoot any load without needing reliability adjustments to springs.

    :)
     
  14. TheDreadnought

    TheDreadnought

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    Depends on whether you believe muzzle energy kills.

    It's actually more about momentum.

    Muzzle Energy is just the popular vote.
    Momentum is the Electoral College.
     
  15. MajorD

    MajorD

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    I do agree there are other factors but not to sure about momentum. Bullet construction sectional density penetration wound channel actual versus potential and so on. I am a big believer the bullet that hits the vitals and penetrates adequately is the one getting the job done and a huge factor in this beyond ALL others is shot placement. Some people can shoot a revolver better than an auto or vice versa. The pistol or revolver you are most accurate with in a given power range is the answer ultimately. A few dozen foot pounds of energy or velocity one way or the other doesn’t mean much. An animal that has its heart or lungs torn apart by a properly placed bullet doesn’t know the difference between a 180 200 or 220 grain bullet or 1300 or 1425 feet per second or 680 versus 770 foot pounds of energy
     
  16. happie2shoot

    happie2shoot

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    You left out some info on that five inch smith on the BB site,
    ==========================================================
    ''You'll notice that new S&W revolvers with short barrels are often shooting faster than older S&W revolvers with longer barrels.''

    https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=100

    ''The below velocities are offered so that you can see what guns/barrel lengths give what velocities with this new 357 mag. ammo. You'll notice that new S&W revolvers with short barrels are often shooting faster than older S&W revolvers with longer barrels. The new S&W revolvers are very good and are made with equipment that makes them more consistent and faster than the S&W revolvers of yesteryear.

    Make special note of the Marlin 1894, 18.5-inch barrel velocities. Item 19C/20 supercedes 30-30 energies!!!

    ➤ 3-inch S&W J Frame
    a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1302 fps
    b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC (jacketed hollow cavity) = 1299 fps
    c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1398 fps
    d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1476 fps

    4-inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun
    a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1375 fps
    b. Item 19B/20-170gr JHC = 1411 fps
    c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1485 fps
    d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1603 fps

    5-inch S&W model 27
    a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast =1398 fps
    b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1380 fps
    c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1457 fps
    d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1543 fps''

    ==========================================================

    Here is some of the best data on the 10mm and 357, lots of info
    on these two links,

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12cjblt0pDB-csBqvoDoCLQH_SLRlUNLHkBVDxge1O2k/edit#gid=7

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gex6ItGeWQunVZR9B14mseacyEGoreRRrBEXZavfciM/edit?pli=1#gid=6

    Your G20 will not be as powerful as the guns tested unless
    you get a longer barrel for it, I know this from testing loads
    in them, had six Glocks to test some UW loads, with barrels
    to 6.6''.

    Even the three inch J frame 357, 180gr at 1302fps, beats most
    10mm loads with
    a full size G20. If you measure the cylinder on the J frame
    it is not as strong as the five shot SP 101, so it could
    take more.

    Nothing in the 10mm, both factory loads and reloading data that
    I have seen and reloaded and tested, beats the 357 with
    the BB 180 cast. We cast a better boolit than the BB load,
    it has a bigger meplat and more than one crimp groves, that
    means we can seat it out much farther and have more room
    for powder for the bigger and stronger 357s.

    I also have nineteen 357s with barrels from 1 3/4'' to 20'',
    also cast and load for both calibers.

    Something else to think about, we alter our 10mm to shoot
    above standard load data, we don't like brass that smiles,
    with the 357 all you need to do is buy one of the stronger
    guns to give you a much larger margin of safety, the J frame
    is one of the weakest of all the 357s.

    More to consider, the 180gr cast fngc has a much better BC
    than anything I know of for the 10mm, that means not only
    does the 357 start out faster but at 100 yards it has more
    advantage there too.

    I do like the 10mm, but I do know its limitations.
     
  17. FireInCairo

    FireInCairo

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    It looks like the .357 magnum edges out the 10mm for power, but the 10mm handily beats the .357 magnum in capacity.

    I would rather 16 rounds of hot 10mm auto (Underwood 180 grain XTP at 1,300 FPS) than 6 rounds of .357 magnum.
     
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  18. Swipter

    Swipter

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    I've been reading these 10mm threads and seems like all 10mm owners are reloaders. Does anyone own a 10mm and just buy ammo? Are they used mainly for woods protection? I see a lot of "used as intended" also.
     
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  19. Benchrst

    Benchrst Ban Hamster

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    Lol, dick :)
     
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  20. Borg Warner

    Borg Warner

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    My Gen3 G20SF will shoot any load without needing reliability adjustments to springs.

    I use the stock weight 17 pound Lone Wolf Flat wound spring on a stainless steel guide rod for all ammo including Underwood, Buffalo Bore, and Doubletap and never had a single malfunction after over 500 rounds of the specialty ammo and about 1500 rounds of standard commercial ammo and reloads and another 500 rounds of 40 S&W fired out of a 6 inch Lone Wolf 40 S&W barrel. (about time I got a new recoil spring!)

    The only loads that my existing set-up would not handle would be some of the un-sane reloads using mass quantities of 800-x that I've seen posted on the GT reloading forum which are way over
    published recommended maximums and SAAMI specs for 10mm.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
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