Internal "Border" Patrol Threshold for Suspicion: "Your car is dirty."

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by NorthCarolinaLiberty, Mar 10, 2010.

  1. NorthCarolinaLiberty

    NorthCarolinaLiberty MentalDefective

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    There is another recent thread on this board about seatbelt checkpoints that also discusses internal customs checkpoints. This one is regarding a border patrol checkpoint that does not even occur on the border.

    Note that the motorist immediately answers the question regarding citizenship and is polite, but the officer wants to detain him because his car is dirty.

    Transcript of 1 minute 40 second video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4zYizaMmDo




    Checkpoint Incident Video Transcript:


    BP Agent 1:“How's it going?”
    Driver:“U.S. Citizen”
    BP Agent 1:“Ok, this your car?”
    Driver:“Yes sir”
    BP Agent 1:“Do you mind if I take a look in your trunk?”
    Driver:“I do mind”
    BP Agent 1:“You do mind?”
    Driver:“Yes sir”
    BP Agent 1:“Can I have you pull into secondary?”
    Driver:“What's your name?”
    BP Agent 1:“My name's Eric Moorhead”
    Driver:“Is there any reason to believe I've broken immigration law or why, why do you want to check...”
    BP Agent 1:“No, I was just wondering if you would mind...”
    Driver:“No but why, what's the reason you want to check my trunk?”
    BP Agent 1:“Just, your car is dirty...”
    Driver:“Just because my car is dirty?”
    BP Agent 1:“No, it's not just because your car is dirty”
    Driver: Garbled
    BP Agent 1:"Can I have you pull into secondary. You can ask your questions over there sir.”
    Driver:“Is that the best you're going to give me?”
    BP Agent 1:“Can I have you pull into secondary”
    Driver:“Moorhead?”
    BP Agent 1:“Yes sir”
    Driver:“Ok”
    (Driver pulls into secondary inspection)
    BP Agent 2:“How's it going?”
    Driver:“Good”
    BP Agent 2:“USC?”
    Driver:“Yes sir”
    BP Agent 2:“Don't take my picture man”
    Driver:”No ahhh, just for my protection”
    BP Agent 2:“Put that down, put that down”
    Driver:“No, I don't have to”
    BP Agent 2:“Put that down dude”
    Driver:“I don't have to”
    BP Agent 2:“What's wrong with you?”
    Driver:“What do you mean what's wrong with me? Do you have a...”
    BP Agent 2:“Why you take my picture?”
    Driver:”Do you have a court order to take my camera or...”
    BP Agent 2:“No no no, I'm not taking your camera...”
    Driver:“No, ok. We can continue.”
    BP Agent 2:“We can continue?”
    Driver:“Yeah. Go ahead”
    BP Agent 2:“Ok. Do you have anything in the trunk?”
    Driver:“No sir”
    BP Agent 2:“Do you mind if I look?”
    Driver:“I do mind”
    CBP Officer:“Is he recording?”
    BP Agent 2:“Ok, ahhh.... yeah he's recording”
    CBP Officer:“How come?”
    Driver:“I always I always record”
    BP Agent 2:“You always record?. Ok, standby”
    (Agents huddle together a little ways off. One comment can be heard)
    BP Agent 3:“Do we have anything else on him?”
    (BP Agent 2 walks back towards the vehicle)
    BP Agent 2:“All right”
    Driver:“Bye”
     
  2. Cochese

    Cochese Most mackinest CLM

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  3. geez1234

    geez1234

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    My thoughts exactly...
     
  4. Cochese

    Cochese Most mackinest CLM

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    I guess I just don't see the big deal here. The border patrol and CBP's job is to interdict illegals and criminal activity. It looked to me to be exactly what they were doing. Looked like a routine (as oppsed to non routine) border search to me, with BPAs and CBPOs present. Routine searches at a border CP do not require reasonable suspicion and are exempt from fourth amenment considerations.

    Get this, folks can even be profled based on their ethnicity or contacted at random!

    The guy with the camera should also expect extra attention when he acts like a ******.
     
  5. Cochese

    Cochese Most mackinest CLM

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    Where EXACTLY is this supposed "non border" checkpoint (staffed by BORDER patrol) taking place?
     
  6. Chad Landry

    Chad Landry Cajunator® CLM

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    I agree with the guy with the camera acting like a ******.

    On the other hand, these checkpoints are often very far away from the border. I have no problem with them, but I do have a problem with "Routine searches at a border CP do not require reasonable suspicion and are exempt from fourth amenment considerations".

    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Constitution the supreme law of the land? And isn't the Constitution the basic set of rules by which federal agencies play?

    If the BoR doesn't apply to certain federal agencies, what good is it?


    The video was a non-incident, as far as I'm concerned, because the agents let the guy go on his way without a search. If they were not bound by Constitutional law, why did they let him go? Why was the one agent nervous about being videotaped?

    Why, ultimately, did they not act on their supposed exemption from the Constitution?
     
  7. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    I believe he clearly explained it wasn't a border checkpoint and, therefore, was subject to the 4th amendment.
     
  8. Cochese

    Cochese Most mackinest CLM

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    There are a lot of good answers here:

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception?wasRedirected=true

    I can't answer most of your questions since I ain't those BPAs in the video and I still don't know if this was "off border" as claimed, nor do we know what happened when thiks guy cut off his camera.

    BP/CBP are damned if they do and damned if they don't because half the populous is *****ing about nobody doing anything about all the illegals and the wide open border, and the other half are jackasses with cameras and an axe to grind.
     
  9. Chad Landry

    Chad Landry Cajunator® CLM

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    I completely concur.

    However, I've been through a lot of these checkpoints which are a long ways from the border. Whether I've been into Mexico, or not, I still have to sit and wait, sometimes for up to 30 minutes, for them to do their thing.

    I drive a pickup with a camper shell, and I've had them ask if they could look inside. I've politely told them, "not without a warrant", and they've politely let me go.

    Seems if they were exempt, I'd have been searched anyway. Would them finding firearms and ammo have been a problem? That's exactly what they would have found in my pickup.
     
  10. missing

    missing

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    Border inspection/check is one of the exceptions to the search warrant rule.

    Pretty sure it has to on or very close to the border though.
     
  11. Cochese

    Cochese Most mackinest CLM

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    Who is "he"?

    The guy with the camcorder? What proof do we have of the location of this checkpoint?

    All I saw was a bunch of BP/CBP and I heard reference to secondary. (Admittedly, I am posting from a phone and watching this video on a tiny screen)

    If there is a full checkpoint here with secondary examination areas and both BPA and CBP personnel, I question whether they would knowingly set up an illegal CP. GS-14/15 DHS admin types have better things to do than be sued.
     
  12. Chad Landry

    Chad Landry Cajunator® CLM

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    And, in case you don't know, I'm completely happy with the way they do their job. I'm always grateful for what those guys do. I always give 'em a smile and I'm always very friendly toward them, just as I am with any public servant.

    I enjoy interacting with US Soldiers while I'm working in Iraq, though I always allow them to search my stuff without any complaint. Same goes for the Iraqi soldiers. I fully realize that there is no Bill of Rights in Iraq that applies to me.
     
  13. Deployment Solu

    Deployment Solu Kydex Crafter

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    Watch a couple of episodes of Border Wars (aptly named)....after that, you will let the BP look up your nose for illegals if they want to. :rofl:

    I have never been so apalled as I was watching thieves, crooks, and murders stream across our borders, virtually unchecked!!!!!!!
    With so many AMERICANS out of work, why do we need these people entering our country?? To work jobs Americans won't work??

    At first, it was..oh, give the poor guy a chance to better himself....now it should be get out you thief!!!!!You steal from our society, it's people, and it's future. Go start a revolution in your own country to make it better!!!

    Our borders are a joke. They CAN be fixed, but no we don't have the stomach for it ....yet. We need a little more than...do you mind if I look in your trunk:whistling:
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2010
  14. Chad Landry

    Chad Landry Cajunator® CLM

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    It's not an illegal checkpoint at all. Like I said, I go through them fairly regularly. I seriously question their exemption from the COTUS, though. I don't question that exemption for those actually on the border.

    If the off-border checkpoints had true PC, they would get a warrant easily enough, and I'm sure they do when necessary.
     
  15. Cochese

    Cochese Most mackinest CLM

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    I've never been through a border CP, never been to MX or CAN. I have been through a CBP line back and forth from Nassau. If they let you go, they didn't feel the need to press the issue, perhaps?

    Guns and ammo would only been a problem if you were trafficing them to MX, me thinks. There is some latitude with the distance of the CP from the exact border but I haven't been through the training to accurately speak about it, being a city guy.

    A lot of LE is hunches. Especially when your dealing with the shear volume of people at the border.
     
  16. Chad Landry

    Chad Landry Cajunator® CLM

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    These checkpoints are a long ways from the border.
     
  17. Chad Landry

    Chad Landry Cajunator® CLM

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    I fully understand that. I also know that it's acceptable for agents to get consent before checking. Without that consent, I'm pretty sure they need a warrant. Especially for a US citizen.

    I've also seen BP agents catch someone in a high-speed chase. One girl on the scene thought it was "not fair" that the BP had 5 cars to chase down a single van. I could only laugh at that.

    This was also well away from the border. I cheered the BP guys on as it was taking place.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2010
  18. Cochese

    Cochese Most mackinest CLM

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    :cheers:

    I guess I need to school myself on "off border" border checkpoints and the distances/definitions associated. :)
     
  19. Chad Landry

    Chad Landry Cajunator® CLM

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    I wish I could tell you how many miles away they are, but honestly, I've never looked at it that closely. I know that the ones I've been through are often an hour's drive or so away from the border.
     
  20. Cochese

    Cochese Most mackinest CLM

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    Id like to know how far. Ill be looking more into this when I'm not on a phone browser.

    We have several mean green here at GT. I can't wait for them to weigh in.