Interesting video of interaction between the FBI and FL Sheriff's deputy

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by wreckless, Mar 23, 2020.

  1. SAR

    SAR CLM

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    Many agencies have written policy mandating officers to turn on their cameras at the start of any contact and forbidding an officer from turning off their cameras until the incident is finished. Can’t speak for this officer’s agency, but in my experience he may not even had the discretion to turn off the camera at the onset.
     
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  2. Spec62

    Spec62 Millennium Member

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    True, but from the deputy's perspective, it appears to be a judgement call to have turned it on. And yes, when exactly the "incident is finished" appeared subjective. Copy and concur.
     

  3. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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    The AG investigation? Oh, Gawd. I know of some events and those “investigations” go. There is no doubt that if it was not all recorded on his body cam , the FBI would have arrested him for “turning on the heater “ or for the torture of a prisoner sort of charge.

    The trust factor is lost. It’s the same with the guys who do internal affairs. The internal affairs have a way to close an investigation is “B” CD it They aren’t allowed to close a case until they find something the cop did wrong, administratively or criminally. A command discipline or CD is a way to close the caseHe didn’t do what he was accused of but we got him for this. The officer wore white socks instead of Black so let’s nail him sort of thing. Or he didn’t fill out the paperwork correctly, get him. A lot of these Federal investigations are similar.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
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  4. Spec62

    Spec62 Millennium Member

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    Can't speak to our LEOs police their own. . .only from the media. The optic looked bad for the sheriff's department which precipitated the feds to investigate. Someone said something was shady with the department. Go check it out. If you've done nothing wrong, what's the problem? Apparently, someone sidestepped a process. Curious how a real estate agent can simply make a call and get things done? That's interesting.
     
  5. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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    Thank you for proving my point . The deputy is being asked questions where he may or may not have been charged with official misconduct. Is there any evidence of a bribe? Or is it a procedural question of how the ticket was dismissed. Your story lends it to be that “procedural question”. The cop would be smart to lawyer up before talking to that Fed. We had a ticket fixing scandal up here too. Procedural as well. To the point where chiefs and DAs who have the power to squash a ticket would use this “unlawful” system rather than official system. A IA detective wanted to prosecute a dirty cop on the ticket scandal and was told no. A ADA who was arrested for DWI used it her trial to discredit the cop. And the press piled on. Good cops and cops I didn’t personally like were caught up in it. They didn’t take money. They did it simply because they were asked and their bosses told them to do it. They actually believed it was the way it was done because it was. The Bronx DA himself called the defendants to squash tickets ( of which he had the power to do so) rather than the official channels way.
    The other DAs refused to even bother with such a case. A few cops including a IA lieutenant were prosecuted.

    A “small “ fixed ticket doesn’t mean the cop wasn’t going to be the subject of a prosecution. That body cam might be the best thing he could have done.
     
  6. Spec62

    Spec62 Millennium Member

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    Agreed. Nothing you say, from an investigative perspective, I will contradict. . . mainly because it wasn't me, so I'm not in a position to second guess what the deputy was thinking. I'm simply saying the sum total of this specific deputy's behavior throughout this incident was weak and truly indicative of a need for significant improvement. Further, the involvement of a supervisor and the detective exacerbated and complicated the whole situation. The captain appeared to be on the radio. The on site supervisor was working another angle with a driver license which I understand the agent did not have to provide and finally, the County Sheriff actually arrives on the scene and then disappears. Simply not a good look for the department.

    Lastly, you have posters here, who "claim" to be law enforcement who cast aspersions on their federal "brothers in arms" as if they are the enemy of local law enforcement. That to me is some bull****. Whatever tactic the agent used, his ultimate goal was to investigate a possible violation of the law. For those posters who comment negatively about the feds, they are the reasons for having internal affairs, police review boards, public corruption investigators. They stain the integrity of law enforcement with their posts <if they truly are "johnny law.">

    Again, my only comparison is the military. As a group, I can never dishonor an organization who swore an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States from enemies <from a military perspective FOREIGN in scope>. I can criticize an individual but never the institution. These guys, who swore to protect and defend, speak negatively about those whose job it is to defend the Constitution from "domestic" enemies? We do have a bunch of those around. That's sad.

    Cops I like. I don't like stupid people. Just my thought.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  7. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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    In the old days, it could have been solved quickly.

    The trust factor is lost. If the sheriff or supervisor gets involved and makes a wrong call in the eyes of the FBI they will charge him with obstruction. Again, the trust factor is gone thanks to the overzealous investigations and prosecutions of innocent cops and ancillary situations. FBI agent thinks you are lying or even when they know you are not, they charge him with lying . There are many examples of this. These aren’t some aberrations. We either know the people involved or know someone who knows them.

    This is the BS we have had to work under the Obama administration and the current anti-cop atmosphere. False allegations are common but they instantly believe it until proven otherwise even when on the face of their claims are known to be impossible or improbable. Just the investigation alone stops or pauses a cop’s career until its completed. And unlike a police investigation and is later sealed, it’s made available to public or the law enforcement agency who might want to hire the cop. The Port Authority Police Department refused to hire any former NYPD for a time because the NYPD did not release those records. The civilian complaint review board will investigate BS and put 10 cops or more as the subject of it for the actions of one. The cop who might not have been working now has a complaint on his record along with the other nine. It is that bad. If a cop who just came the scene and never got out of his car , with body cam footage to prove it, gets a complaint, it is still on his record.
    The trust factor is gone.

    In NYC, if you said you were innocent of the charge, they would charge you with “lying “ at one time. A perp could lie on the stand and not get charged with prejury but if the cop makes a mistake or says they aren’t sure but I think... they charge him.
    At one time, if a Nypd cop wrote a ticket twenty years ago, and could not remember the incident , internal affairs/inspections would give the cop an administrative hit.
    So later they said if your memo book notes weren’t good enough they would give the cop a hit. It didn’t matter if the notes were on the ticket as they were taught to do it. If it wasn’t in that memo book, it was a loss of 10 vacation days. But if you lost the memo book, it was only a 5 vacation day hit. A lot of memo books got lost before traffic court. Rookie cops only get 10 vacation days a year. And a lot of those days are used for everyday functions because the schedule conflicts between work and real life. Vacation days are often used to attend a wedding or graduation.
    The federal investigations are often the same way. The officer can’t remember the incident, charge him with lying to an federal agent. It has happened. McCabe does it and its okay. Flynn or a cop does it, charge him. A double standard to the extreme. The trust factor of an honest good faith effort is gone. Lawyer up before doing anything if questioned by a Fed is the SOP of today.

    And remember today’s NYPD cop can and is Monday morning investigated by the following agencies: both the southern and eastern district federal US attorney offices , 5 different local DA offices, the civilian complaint review board, the city council, internal affairs , inspections, the inspector general, . And this list does not include their immediate supervisors or others in their chain of command, defense lawyers and their investigators or just the press reporters. Now add the FBI or other alphabet agency who might decide to get involved.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  8. TheDreadnought

    TheDreadnought

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    Didn't watch the video, got some gist from comments in the thread. Bad behavior by an FBI agent.

    I still maintain the entire FBI is a corrupt organization that needs to be fired top to bottom. They were active participants in an attempted overthrow of a lawfully elected president. Sick of hearing about the good "rank and file" people. They may not be involved, but some knew, and others heard rumors, and none of them did anything to investigate corruption with their own organization. There's been minimal accountability to this day.

    FIRE EVERY FBI AGENT, DENY THEIR PENSIONS, START FROM SCRATCH.
     
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  9. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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    That is the problem!!!

    Not the FBI but that attitude where innocent cops are lumped in with the guilty automatically. It’s like saying if a bank employee imbeciles money all of the bank employees must have known about it. Most don’t and have been falsely accused themselves so are less likely to believe such complaints.
    Even the FISA scandal had good agents report it and suddenly the boys from DC took over. The Anthony Weiner computer was good cops who reported it and it was the Washington boys who covered it up with threats of prosecution of them and innocent people if they broke the silence. The story got out anyway. Hence Comey’s reopening of the case before he shut it down again.

    The vast majority have no knowledge of it or did report it. More than 90% of the complaints to internal affairs here are by other cops.

    And even then, they are mostly BS complaints.
     
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  10. Spec62

    Spec62 Millennium Member

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    Glad you thought doesn't matter.
     
  11. Spec62

    Spec62 Millennium Member

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    . . .I can't speak about law enforcement, because the nuances of law enforcement at each level is problem different. I've always "heard" about the law enforcement that even though there's a "blue line," cops are notorious for "eating their own." Never fully understood the contradiction, but it is what it is. I'm on the outside looking in. Cops go looking for trouble either by a response to a 911 call or rolling up onto something on patrol. That's the nature of the job. People aren't nice; people lie. . .cops are people too. Even the Supreme Court said, when investigating a potential crime, under circumstances, cops are entitled to lie. . .and there you have it. . .but it local, federal. . .where ever. That's the profession. To stereotype, generalize, or label a profession negatively? I push back.
     
  12. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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    Certain lies are allowed for a confession. Other lies are not. Claiming to be his or her court appointed lawyer would not be okay. Federal investigations have limits to their lies as well. But it isn’t a question of a lie it’s a question of trust. You can’t have it both ways . Claim a brotherhood, betray it and expect people of that brotherhood to trust you again. They will take the protections like everyone else can and do.

    If a federal agent wants to interview me, I will treat it the same as an internal affairs or CCRB investigator is questioning me. Answer professionally, carefully or not at all; like everyone else.

    The trust factor was destroyed by overzealous prosecutions by Feds. Same reason Internal Affairs isn’t trusted. Innocence didn’t stop them from prosecution. It’s not like a judgement call that must be made immediately at the scene. That we can understand. They knew they were innocent , acted in good faith or just a procedural error. The Feds knew, didn’t care, and did it anyway.
     
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  13. jim goose

    jim goose "The Goose"

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    I’m not a cop,

    But, apparently this agent is somekind of internal affairs agent and this is his specialty. Which leads me to believe he has practiced this performance a thousand times in his 31 yrs.

    I doubt he expected the young deputy to comply, expected all that happened, and was happy to get cuffed and stuffed. He was fishing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
  14. BL33D 4 M3

    BL33D 4 M3

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    No. No. And no.
     
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  15. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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    It sounds like his speciality? If it is, they need to rethink who they assign.

    Fishing? He was fishing to make that cop his next arrest. The cop covered himself and didn’t cuff him until he was on the terrorist watch list and refused to help verify his identity.
    The cop expressed a concern that the person in front of him could have posing as an FBI agent to get the cop to give up info as a false flag operation. It has been attempted before in other places and cases. The FBI agent could have just given a telephone number that could have verified him as an FBI agent which would be the normal protocol without jeopardizing his case. This isn’t the first time an FBI agent or other plainclothes investors have had to verify their LEO status or that they are on legit business. I have been there where a Fed has been stopped for possible illegal activity and was not on an official investigation ; and I have been there when they did it “undercover” and had an non undercover agent verify they were official. We have cases / investigations intersect with other agencies all the time. There are established protocols on how it’s handled including the investigation of a corrupt department.

    The FBI agent screwed up. He escalated it because he knew that his “quiet “ investigation was now going to be out in the open. The cop covered his butt as he needs to in this environment. The threat of contacting the US Atty in response to the body cam was a mistake. It was a threat of prosecution and it wasn’t to look out for the cop.
    Then he had his panic attack and his false accusations. Thank god for that officer he recorded that.

    Now did the cop come off as if he didn’t know what do and was winging it?

    The answer is probably a big “yes “. That actually goes to the cop’s benefit. What is what they universally teach cops to do if they don’t know what to do? CALL a Supervisor. As this cop did.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
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  16. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

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    Damn right!

    Because NOBODY, especially the FBI guys peers, would have believed the crazy story the cop would have told them about how the FBI guy acted like a jackass without video.

    I suppose it’s possible that maybe they already know he’s “that guy”, but would still be hard pressed to believe he’s THAT dumb.

    Randy


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  17. jim goose

    jim goose "The Goose"

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    obviously the Agent knew the deputy would put this out over the radio at some point.

    I think the deputy did the right thing and is unfortunately caught in the middle of this. He wrote the hit and run ticket, but was probably told by a higher up to pull it. It was a no win situation for him and why no one should have done a favor for the realtor lady.
    Someone above him put him in a bad position and the FBi made it worse.
    Don’t do people favors.
     
  18. BL33D 4 M3

    BL33D 4 M3

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    A line officer or deputy should not have the authority to quash a ticket once written. Whether there was a public integrity issue or not there was a policy failure. The proper way to handle voiding a ticket would be to involve a command level member of the agency and the prosecutor. Nolle pros the ticket in traffic court.
     
  19. walkinguf61

    walkinguf61

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    It’s the belief that the cop shouldn’t be able to squash a ticket on his own in order to prevent cops from taking money to squash a ticket that is behind it. And it’s a reasonable belief and safeguard. Some times these procedures cause more problems than they are worth and make the problem bigger. Sort of like when a corporate IT makes an employee change their computer password so often that they can’t remember it and put it on a post-it note on the computer monitor that everyone can see.

    They make it so hard to get a mistakenly issued ticket corrected or squashed that the “shortcuts” are done by those same people who are in the official chain of squashing a ticket process.

    Now the shortcut is the accepted practice of that organization and many don’t even know the “official “ procedures because it’s not how it’s really done by anyone.
     
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  20. BL33D 4 M3

    BL33D 4 M3

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    You can't write policy for every conceivable scenario. You have to focus on best practices and industry standards. If members decide to sidestep policy in the interest of expedience, eventually there will be a consequence. In the above example there are two failures. Training and supervision.