Instances where 5 wasn't enough.

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by Out West, Nov 5, 2019.

  1. ReaPer105

    ReaPer105

    Messages:
    4,259
    Likes Received:
    8,029
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
    Hits can be a lot harder to get when someone is trying to kill you.
     
    Intolerant, pgg00 and fredj338 like this.
  2. fredj338

    fredj338

    Messages:
    31,631
    Likes Received:
    10,468
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    so.cal.
    We have run it many times. Why I say it is target shooting is the pretty slow split times. We do it from holster just to make it interesting. I just don't think its a valid determination of weapon skill at speed. I know many do, no issue with that, just not my opinion FB.
     

  3. fredj338

    fredj338

    Messages:
    31,631
    Likes Received:
    10,468
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    so.cal.
    Well exactly, why so many misses occur in SD shootings. If you cant do it on the quiet range, you wont on the street.
     
    Intolerant and dubito like this.
  4. fredj338

    fredj338

    Messages:
    31,631
    Likes Received:
    10,468
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    so.cal.
    That is such a chunk of gun to tote for even 8rds. I have a M629 3" that is fun to hammer stuff with but I doubt I ever carry it anywhere but the trailheads in bigger bear country.
     
  5. jd4223

    jd4223

    Messages:
    300
    Likes Received:
    469
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Location:
    Detroit
    Police vehicle(Squad Car)
     
    ithaca_deerslayer likes this.
  6. bravo619

    bravo619

    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    37
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    But! The plus side is it’s totally concealable as it on weighs 22.5oz and can shoot +p or 38spl



    -- "Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you: 1. Jesus Christ 2. The American G. I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
     
  7. fredj338

    fredj338

    Messages:
    31,631
    Likes Received:
    10,468
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    so.cal.
    If I am toting something that large, I might as well have the "power" to go with it. I do like my M66 snub though, just not the best tool for the job anymore IMO.
     
    Intolerant and bravo619 like this.
  8. fastbolt

    fastbolt

    Messages:
    23,696
    Likes Received:
    23,329
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2002
    Location:
    CA Central Coast
    You run on it skilled target/comp shooters, or just beginner/intermediate ordinary shooters who never see anything more challenging that the shooting station in front of a 15-25yd slow-fire public range?

    If you're using it on people where you can include the draw/presentation and still have them successfully perform it, you might be using an easy assessment drill that's a rung or two lower on the bar for such folks.

    I only use it for the occasional spot checks of myself nowadays (with the shortened times, as well as doing it 1-handed a yard or 2 closer). I've used it to allow some "average" shooters to determine for themselves if they may have over-estimated their grasp and performance of the basics, or allowed themselves to become lazy in maintaining their basics.

    If we were discussing it from a martial arts perspective, I'd consider it one of the basic techniques and forms a student must be able to consistently perform before being considered for the lower intermediate beginner ranks, like brown belt.

    Then again, many people who may initially be drawn to the martial arts for "self defense" never stick with it long enough to acquire even their brown belt (in ranked systems), which might not be an unfair comparison for some people who start going to a range, but never keep up an interest to learn and refine their skills beyond the minimal basics.

    I'm not disagreeing with you, BTW, but am just seeing it as an assessment tool from a different perspective. For "target shooting" I often break out the wooden clothespins when the bullseyes or chasing the holes get boring. :)
     
  9. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

    Messages:
    31,502
    Likes Received:
    26,967
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Location:
    Upstate NY, USA
    Actually, he wanted a 5 shot limit and tried to ram it through, but one of the state senate leaders wouldn't go along because it would alienate Remington and Fudd 1911 owners, so it was pushed up to 7.

    Federal judge, after the law was written, pushed it up to 10.
     
    Intolerant likes this.
  10. fastbolt

    fastbolt

    Messages:
    23,696
    Likes Received:
    23,329
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2002
    Location:
    CA Central Coast
    That's the PC's N-frame 327 8-shot Sc/Ti .357, right?

    As much as I appreciate a good N-frame, and don't mind the weight savings of the SC/AL frame and Titanium cylinder ... and DO appreciate the velocity boost of a good .357MAG load :) ...

    If I'm going to belt on something with that tall of a grip frame and that much cylinder girth, I much prefer to have a 4-5" barrel. That said, just to show I can be contrary at times, for a K-frame I tend to really like a 3" barrel for a concealment model (like my 3" M65"), although I've "made do" with a 2 1/2" barrel. ;)

    The best that can be said for such a stubby barreled 327 snub is that the abbreviated barrel won't be poking into the seat, causing your holster & belt to ride up when you're behind the wheel. :p

    Bet it's "illuminating" with slow burning powders used.
     
  11. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

    Messages:
    5,792
    Likes Received:
    1,842
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 1999
    Location:
    Rebel South
    I think you guys are worrying about the wrong thing. I think you should be more worried about your hit ratio and shot placement, not whether or not 5, 7, 10 or 15 is enough. I carry the biggest gun I can manage under the circumstance. Sometimes its 7, sometimes is 13.. it will have to be enough. I do carry a reload but its more for managing malfunction and not expressly for the "extra" ammo.
     
  12. fastbolt

    fastbolt

    Messages:
    23,696
    Likes Received:
    23,329
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2002
    Location:
    CA Central Coast

    You gotta have a cart and you gotta have a horse ... and you gotta know how to hook them together in the right manner ... and you still gotta know how to point them in the right direction and make them move forward ... and have them end up where you need them to go.
     
  13. BL33D 4 M3

    BL33D 4 M3

    Messages:
    2,302
    Likes Received:
    3,168
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Location:
    Chicago/MAGA Country
    I've been following this thread with interest. My outlook is that after attending lots of training and reading lots of different OIS articles and the like, I never heard a single person involved in an actual gunfight say they wish they'd had less ammo. Basic training stresses redundancy ( 1 is none, 2 is 1 etc...). If luck favors the prepared, then ammo capacity is part of preparation. I carried a snub and a speed strip or speed loader for years. I felt fine doing so. I just think there are better options now that didn't exist then. There is really no trade off in terms of comfort to double your capacity and make a reload exponentially faster and easier under stress. And modern SD 9mm ammo is arguably superior to .38sp and maybe even .357 out of a snub. Just my thoughts on the issue and certainly not a judgment on anyone that chooses differently.
     
  14. Burncycle

    Burncycle

    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    39
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEzKWizZ4FM


    Law enforcement in this case, but pretend they weren't there and the woman had a firearm -- dumping a magazine (or cylinder) and they seem unphased... and he's armed. He has sufficient time to do you harm, including kill you, in those remaining seconds of consciousness and I imagine it would seem like an eternity on the ground holding your slide locked gun or empty revolver...
     
    fredj338 likes this.
  15. 9x45

    9x45 Millennium Member

    Messages:
    6,023
    Likes Received:
    3,746
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 1999
    Location:
    Southern California
    He was assigned to desk duty from that incident forward. He carries a G17 on duty.
     
    jr24 and -JCN- like this.
  16. John_AZ

    John_AZ

    Messages:
    3,257
    Likes Received:
    9,479
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Location:
    The Desert
    lot of shots fired. How many hits?
     
  17. Ordell Robbie

    Ordell Robbie Giant Member

    Messages:
    3,908
    Likes Received:
    4,771
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    I'm actually back asswards in my thinking compared to most. I'll pocket carry a J-frame and a speed strip around on weekdays and am totally comfortable with it but when I go out after dark I usually carry a Glock and a spare mag.

    I've stated this before, it's always driven me nuts when someone starts a thread wanting advice on a small pocket revolver for those proverbial "10 p.m. Quick trips to the Stop & Rob for a gallon of milk." I pay attention to my local news and it doesn't matter what part of town, all the QT's, Kum & Go's and Kwik Shops in my town have been held up at some point but it's always after dark or very early in the morning before sun up. So to me, that's the trip and time when I want my G19 and an extra mag, not a J-frame and a speed strip.
     
  18. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

    Messages:
    31,502
    Likes Received:
    26,967
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Location:
    Upstate NY, USA
    Yes and yes!
     
  19. fredj338

    fredj338

    Messages:
    31,631
    Likes Received:
    10,468
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    so.cal.
    Skilled shooters FB. Yes it would be more diff for those that dont shoot but a few 100rfs a year. Why we ran it from the very 1st from the holater. We all knew it could esaily be done. If you can do a Bill drill at 7y in under 3sec from the holster, 5x5x5 seems like tarhet work.;)
     
    fastbolt likes this.
  20. fredj338

    fredj338

    Messages:
    31,631
    Likes Received:
    10,468
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    so.cal.
    Isnt that the issue though, is 5rds enough, maybe maybe not. Good shooter one medium size attacker not on drugs, maybe. Poor shooter, as most are with their pocket rocket, big guy, two big guys, probably not.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019