In the News: Lebonon, The Rest of The Story

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Borg Warner, Aug 6, 2020.

  1. willie_pete

    willie_pete NRA Life Member

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    PEPCON wasn’t really a BLEVE, which is a Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion. BLEVE’s are caused by pressurized vessels ( tank cars, for instance ) that fail under fire. The resulting low pressure causes the flammable liquid to immediately boil. The vapor cloud finds an ignition source and then explodes.

    https://www.firerescue1.com/hazards...e-train-car-explosion-bleve-Mld5gN4Nfb3zFXIT/



    The military FAE, fuel air explosion, uses this principle.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmRASCHJe2Q




    Of course, we had an alternate name for a BLEVE. We called them

    Blast Leveling Everything Very Effectively.

    So in that definition, PEPCON was a BLEVE.

    ;)
     
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  2. railfancwb

    railfancwb

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    That is a relatively common explosive for removing rock for a railroad or highway cut. Drill a grid of deep holes. Cap a stick of dynamite - electric preferred - and gently lower it to the bottom of the hole, cap first with wires tied around and taped to the dynamite, then pour the ANFO mixture into the hole, tamp, and fill the hole with tailings from drilling. Ideally sequence the holes to peel the rock away from the mountain.
     
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  3. willie_pete

    willie_pete NRA Life Member

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    ANFO, of course being about 94% AN and the rest being fuel oil.
     
  4. nursetim

    nursetim

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    I was unclear, there were two different events I was referencing, my mistake.
     
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  5. Westexas

    Westexas

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    Yes. It self detonated while I was upstairs in my parents house. I had 8 grams stored in 1 gram amounts in 8 test tubes. These were in a coffee can filled with sand. This was on the bottom shelf of a locked metal cabinet.

    It blew the can to pieces throwing glass and sand around. It blew the locked cabinet door open. The bottom shelf had a big dent in it. The other shelves were blown to the top of the cabinet. Fortunately, nothing outside the cabinet was damaged.

    That was an interesting evening.
     
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  6. Westexas

    Westexas

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  7. czsmithGT

    czsmithGT

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    Speaking of BLEVEs

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Juanico_disaster

    The San Juanico disaster was an industrial disaster caused by a massive series of explosions at a liquid petroleum gas (LPG) tank farm in San Juanico, Mexico (outside of Mexico City, Mexico) on 19 November 1984. The explosions consumed 11,000 m3 of LPG, representing one third of Mexico City's entire liquid petroleum gas supply. The explosions destroyed the facility and devastated the local town of San Juan Ixhuatepec, with 500–600 people killed, and 5000–7000 others suffering severe burns. The San Juanico disaster was one of the deadliest industrial disasters in world history.

    At 5:40 a.m., the cloud reached the flare and ignited, resulting in a vapor cloud explosion that severely damaged the tank farm and resulted in a massive conflagration fed by the LPG leaking from newly damaged tanks. Just four minutes later, at 5:44 a.m., the first tank underwent a BLEVE (Boiling Liquid/Expanding Vapor Explosion). Over the next hour, 12 separate BLEVE explosions were recorded. The fire and smaller explosions continued until 10 a.m. the next morning. It is believed that the escalation was caused by an ineffective gas detection system.
     
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  8. Haldor

    Haldor Formerly retired EE.

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    Fun times.
     
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  9. willie_pete

    willie_pete NRA Life Member

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    In school I was AFROTC and there was a NROTC detachment at the opposite end of the Armory Building. We had a friendly ( not so friendly sometimes ) rivalry going on. One particularly bad semester we were both going at it with each other. Just friendly stuff, like one morning they showed up and there was a huge cork stuck in their displayed naval gun.

    Somewhere someone had read about ammonium triiodide and made up some in the chemistry lab one night. It is fairly stable when wet, but shock sensitive when it dries out. On the way back to the dorms that same someone stopped by the Armory and went in the Naval side ( before the days of cameras everywhere ). He or she slung some stuff under the door jamb of their day room and painted their door knobs with it.

    Our day room was at the opposite end of the building down the corridor and we could see their area. A group of AF cadets was waiting for the Navy guys to show up ( someone may have alerted them :rolleyes: ).

    The first guy started to walk in and touched the doorknob. It snapped with a little cloud of purple smoke. He walked into the room and we heard snap, crackle and pop with a lot of four letter words. It continued as other people showed up until they had evidently walked on all of it.


    Our AF detachment guy issued a letter that afternoon to cease and desist.

    :(
     
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  10. rhikdavis

    rhikdavis U.S. Veteran

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    The responsible parties are now banging their 72 virgins.
     
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  11. flyover

    flyover

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    Thiokol-Woodbine had a fairly big one back in '71.

    https://www.jacksonville.com/article/20101018/NEWS/801242756


    The first hint we got in the newsroom was a crackling from the Times-Union’s new-fangled police radio monitor.

    The Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office police dispatcher was sending patrol officers to help clear the parking lot at Duval Medical Center. That was a former name of what is today Shands Jacksonville hospital.

    Navy helicopters had to land on the parking lot to pick up doctors, the dispatcher said, and fly them to Woodbine, Ga.

    I called the dispatcher and asked why. The dispatcher said that a rocket plant had exploded, and there were multiple casualties.

    At 10:53 a.m. on Wednesday, Feb. 3, 1971, there was a devastating blast that leveled a magnesium flare assembly building at the Thiokol Chemical Corp.’s Woodbine plant. The immediate toll was 24 lives lost. Some of the victims were dismembered, which accounted for an erroneous first count of 35 dead at the scene. Another five would die of their injuries in the coming days. More than 50 workers were injured, some losing limbs. Many spent many months hospitalized.

    A security guard at the plant gate, about 2 miles from the blast site, said, “It was like an atomic bomb.”

    The munitions plant, constructed in 1964, was filling contracts for three Army agencies - the Picatinny Arsenal in Dover, N.J., the Edgewood Arsenal in Maryland and the Army Ammunition Procurement Agency at Joliet, Ill., when the blast occurred. The Army immediately sent in teams of investigators to determine the cause of the blast. Georgia Lt. Gov. Lester Maddox flew to the site that night to inspect the devastation where Building M-132 was leveled, three other buildings were heavily damaged and seven received minor damage.
     
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  12. DukeNukem

    DukeNukem

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    I have been around shots in mining. Anfo takes a cap and booster to light off. I don’t know what the booster is. I have been around all types of shots and fracking in the oil field. Wells are still shot today but now it’s gel, aka dynamite. The cloud from that gives you the zoomies. The orange cloud from anfo will kill you. It is the hydrogen bonds in the ammonium that make it reactive.
     
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  13. Westexas

    Westexas

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    Nitrogen tends to bond weakly with other elements. It just wants to be “free.”

    There can be a significant energy release when nitrogen attains that “freedom.”
     
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  14. willie_pete

    willie_pete NRA Life Member

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    The orange cloud is nitrogen oxides. The Titan II oxidizer was nitrogen tetroxide, N2O4, particularly nasty stuff when it got out. This cloud killed two people underground.

    rock.jpg

    Breathing it basically forms nitric acid in your lungs.
     
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  15. willie_pete

    willie_pete NRA Life Member

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    The Titan II engines basically ran on this stuff, but N2O4 instead of NO2. Start at about 3:00.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcjYdEW_HLQ
     
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  16. Westexas

    Westexas

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    Chlorine trifluoride was tried as an oxidizer. It worked. Problem is, it worked too well. Set fire to pretty much everything, even asbestos. Hypergolic with all known fuels. Even water could be used as a rocket fuel.

    John D. Clark wrote the book “Ignition!” which details NASA research on rocket fuels. It’s on the Science Madness forum as a PDF.

    You’d really enjoy it. Fascinating read.
     
  17. willie_pete

    willie_pete NRA Life Member

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    I'll give it a read, but ClF3; two of the nastiest things around.

    No thanks.

    IIRC, from my HazMat days, it ignites LIVING TISSUE.

    :alex:
     
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  18. as400guy1

    as400guy1

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    That usually happens every couple of years anyway.
     
  19. Mayhem like Me

    Mayhem like Me Semper Paratus

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    This is not entirely correct fire conditions especially those involving fireworks can start AN to degrade causing it to release oxygen making the fire rage and the AN degrade and the result is an explosion.
    At high enough temperatures, however, ammonium nitrate can violently decompose on its own. This process creates gases including nitrogen oxides and water vapour. It is this rapid release of gases that causes an explosion.
     
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  20. thewitt

    thewitt

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    Were they martyrs?
     
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