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Impersonating an off-duty Police Officer

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by Moonfish, Feb 8, 2010.

  1. Nothing to see here… no problem… keep moving. Not a problem if they don’t do anything stupid.

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  2. The situation should be handled jointly by IAD and Psychological Services.

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  3. The situation should be handled by IAD as “being intoxicated while on duty”.

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  4. The law should change to negate the carrying privilege for intoxicated persons.

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  1. Moonfish

    Moonfish CLM

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    Actually, it was a line I used on a drunk I arrested when he asked me for the fourth time why he was being arrested… he didn’t ask again. But it’s what came to mind as I read this article about a bother in blue who indulged a little too much and got bitten by the stupid bug. This is one of 3 or 4 situations, locally, I’ve read about in the last month or so. I think we all totally understand the unique circumstances that may drive this behavior.

    Realizing, of course, that this may be an anomaly of the numbers… but it does beg the question, “How do you feel about a fellow officer being intoxicated in public and armed?”
    1. Nothing to see here… no problem… keep moving. Not a problem if they don’t do anything stupid.
    2. The situation should be handled jointly by IAD to determine any policy violations exist and Psychological Services to set up a treatment program.
    3. The situation should be handled by IAD as a personnel complaint of “being intoxicated while on duty”.
    4. The law should change to negate the carrying privilege for intoxicated persons. This would result in a weapons charge.
    Under Texas law, the presumption is that an officer is on duty 24x7 and thereby given the authority to carry. It’s interesting to note that under LEOSA carry, the privilege is revoked if "under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance.”

    How do you weigh-in?
     
  2. trifecta

    trifecta

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    If you are too impaired to drive, you shouldn't carry.
     

  3. txleapd

    txleapd Hook 'Em Up

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    I've never read anywhere about there being a "presumption" in Texas that a peace officer is "on duty 24X7". The law just doesn't carry a provision that a peace officer must be on duty in order to carry. LEOSA also doesn't affect Texas state law. The feds can't remove a protection from a state law in that state. LEOSA doesn't apply to licensed Texas peace officers legally carrying, under state law, in Texas one bit.

    That being said... It's stupid for ANYONE carrying to go out and get drunk. Guns and alcohol don't mix. Less so than even driving drunk. A cop here in Texas who goes out and gets hammered whiled carrying, should have a foot stuck up his/her backside.

    Now, let me play devil's advocate... If ANYONE goes out and gets hammered, but doesn't commit crime, cause any trouble, or get into trouble, how is anyone going to know they were carrying? That kinda defeats the purpose of your first poll vote. If you're suggesting that IA follow me around while I'm off duty to make sure I don't drink and carry, you're out of your mind.

    I am personally a big fan of being personally responsible for my own actions, and being trusted to make my own good decisions. I recently had this argument with an instructor during training when he was teaching the class like we were all morons. We are cops. We've been sworn to enforce the law. We were trusted with guns and the power to take peoples' freedom away. We can't be treated like the lowest common denominator.

    If I screw up, I expect to pay for it. If I make a bad decision, I expect to pay for it. I also expect to be held to a higher personal standard than the common Joe. That's fine... But in return I expect to be trusted to do the right thing.

    YMMV
     
  4. txleapd

    txleapd Hook 'Em Up

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    On a side note... What does the subject have to do with the content of this thread?
     
  5. Trigger Finger

    Trigger Finger

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    Even if you become drunk and no one knows, no problems and no other issues, how is that construed as "Impersonating a Police Officer" ?

    Some people just like to hassle police officers. Even if they are officers also!
     
  6. Moonfish

    Moonfish CLM

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    I’m not sure it would be worthwhile to argue this point as it totally misses the point of the thread. The concept I was putting forth is that it not illegal for a Peace Officer in Texas to carry any time they want… I think we agree on that.
    I think we agree again. I was simply pointing out the different between state law and LEOSA in the context of a licensed Texas peace officers carrying a gun when they are intoxicated. You’re right; the feds can’t remove this protection.
    Yup… agreeing with you again, buddy.
    So you voted for option #1… thanks for your input.
     
  7. Moonfish

    Moonfish CLM

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    It was "Impersonating an off-duty Police Officer" ... no offense intended... my poor attempt at humor. Don't let it side track you... how do you feel about the actual question asked?
     
  8. blueiron

    blueiron

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    Intoxicated people have no business around weapons.

    That three people at the time of this post do not concur with this basic rule of safety bothers me.
     
  9. Infallible

    Infallible

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    This. We play by the same rules, if you can't do that, then you need find a different job.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2010
  10. Kahr_Glockman

    Kahr_Glockman

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    I dont think that TXLEAPD was saying it wasnta problem. If fact in his post he states that guns and alcohol dont mix. He just makes the statement that he wants to be trused to make a good decision.

    Just what I took out of it.

    I personally think that if an officer gets plastered off-duty while carrying he needs to be delt with for the said lack of judgement.
     
  11. ugly8604

    ugly8604

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    I'm a cop and I live close to where I work. Therefore, I run the risk of running into some **** heads that may recognize me. I will carry my weapon with me wherever I go. I'm still a bachelor and I go to establishments to have fun and meet chicks. I refuse to leave my gun at home because I may have a few drinks. If I plan on getting absolutely hammered Iwill leave it at home as long as one of my buddies will be the DD/carry guy.

    This, "leave your gun at home if you're going to drink at a bar" thought is just ludicrous.
     
  12. msu_grad_121

    msu_grad_121 BOOSH

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    Under Michigan law, its illegal for ANYONE to be in possession of a firearm and be over .02. When I first got into LE, I hung around some mutton-head cops that got drunk EVERY night of the week. The wakeup call for me to stop carrying while drinking (prior to it actually becoming a set-in-stone-law) and hanging out with that group, was havin a few final beers after the bar closed in one of the guys' bakyard and one of the morons in the group drawing his 5 shot 38 and emptying it into the sky.

    I'm a bachelor too, and go to the bar on a regular, if infrequent, basis. Personally, I leave the gun at home despite the fact that I may (and have) run into buttholes off duty. My feelings are that your situational awareness will save your hide more often than your heater. Those aren't everyones feelings, and I'd say let your conscience be your guide. But I'm not a preacher, and I don't play "holier than thou" games...

    As to the original poll, I'd have to say that if an off duty cop draws the attention of an on duty officer, and it comes out that he or she is carrying and intoxicated, it would be a fool of an officer that would admit in an open forum like this that they'd totally cover for the off duty copper, even if those are their feelings. I've always said, officer or citizen, if you put yourself in the crosshairs that bad, there's not much I can do for you. Take my answer for what its worth...
     
  13. Garrett Smith

    Garrett Smith

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    "It’s interesting to note that under LEOSA carry, the privilege is revoked if "under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance"

    Source?
     
  14. trifecta

    trifecta

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    a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).
    (b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that— (1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or
    (2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.


    (c) As used in this section, the term “qualified law enforcement officer” means an employee of a governmental agency who— (1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;
    (2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;
    (3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;
    (4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;
    (5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
    (6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.
     
  15. Hack

    Hack Crazy CO Gold Member

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    I go by LEOSA on this. Texas law not recognizing BOP as peace officers IIRC, that is all we have to go by.

    Would I hem up another fellow officer. I would offer a ride home, or help him with a cab like anyone else. But, if there is consistent refusal, I might have to call in help if he acted the fool.

    We have had people here hemmed up by brother officers of a different department or agency, but those our people were probably acting the fool and deserved it.
     
  16. Garrett Smith

    Garrett Smith

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    I have read and reread the captioned and do not see the word "revoked" that you used in your original message. The way I read 5] is you may not carry concealed under LEOSA if you are intoxicated. No punishment is mentioned.
     
  17. blueiron

    blueiron

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    I am not implicating Txleapd or singling out anyone.

    Common sense tells us that guns, power saws, aircraft, and even common household items can be deadly to drunks or those nearby.

    Enough cops have gotten in trouble with ETOH or died at the hands of drunks. It is best to leave the firepower at home when imbibing.
     
  18. Texas357

    Texas357 Señor Member CLM

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    But does that mean we need to lock up car keys before we get to drinking, or can we agree not to use cars and guns while drinking?

    I've never been so drunk that I thought driving, playing with a gun, etc. etc etc. seemed like a good idea.
     
  19. blueiron

    blueiron

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    I have seen more than one cop get a handgun out and start playing with it while intoxicated.

    A girlfriend was killed by a DUI driver.

    A friend and co-worker died from a fellow LEO killing him with his Glock. Google Shaun Curl - I worked with him in Phoenix. Dick Fekete was the SOB who killed him while drunk.

    Yeah, I am a bit jaundiced on this topic.
     
  20. trifecta

    trifecta

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    The original message using "revoked" wasn't mine and I don't think that's how I would have phrased it. However, if you carry under LEOSA and aren't following the law, you void the protection provided by it. The punishment would be whatever is is dictacted for the prohibited act in whatever state they commit that act.

    In the OP's story from Texas, simply carrying while driniking/intoxicated is not a prohibited act for a TX Peace Officer so there is no penalty for the act. How he chose to use that weapon is another story and very well may end his career as a police officer. :wavey: