If we survive this election with our county.....

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by lawandorder, Aug 13, 2020.

  1. jeanderson

    jeanderson Making America great again! Platinum Member

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    We don't need new countries and we don't need a new constitution. The founders weren't perfect, and they knew that. That's why there's Article V.

    The founders never imagined service in Congress to be a career. In the first 100 years or so of our republic, a representative would serve one or two terms, and go back to doing whatever it was they did (usually farming). Now that government has become a career for so many, and with rampant corruption, it's time to change the rules.

    I don't hold out much hope for getting this or just about any amendment through. It takes 2/3 to propose and 3/4 or states' legislatures to ratify. We haven't had a new amendment proposed for 50 years. The last amendment ratified (the 27th) took over 200 years to ratify! Ironically, it was about congressional pay raises not taking effect until after the next election.

    Our country is so divided, 2/3 of Congress or the states will never agree on anything. Instead, we'll have perpetual constitutional end runs, with the courts making the final decisions. This is why presidential elections and the balance of power in the Senate have become crucial - to control the direction of the court.
     
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  2. nursetim

    nursetim

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    Relatively recently I might add.
     
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  3. nursetim

    nursetim

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    We need to attack both the lobbyists and bureaucracy. Stop lobbying and pare the bureaucracy down to the bone. Elected officials are merely chew toys, low hanging fruit for the low information voters.
     
  4. GeorgiaGlocker

    GeorgiaGlocker Philippians 4: 6-7

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    Term limits won't happen in my lifetime. The politicians have way too much to lose.

    upload_2020-8-13_16-8-40.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
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  5. Pluto57

    Pluto57

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    Rather than a single, continuous puppet?
     
  6. jr24

    jr24

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    Oh, they'll still grovel to special interests, just for post office jobs or cushy contracts/jobs for family members and the like.

    Still, I agree and support term limits for all.

    Another thing I've pondered would be a hard cap spending limit for campaigns and, heck, I'll even allow it to be funded by the taxpayer. Something really low like $100,000 or whatever. This might allow the "Everyman" non-professional politician to have a shot at more offices, which is what the framers intended.
     
  7. TheDreadnought

    TheDreadnought

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    True. But how do you regulate what constitutes a campaign ad by third parties. Are they not allowed to mention the candidate, the race, policies, or anything that might remind people of a candidate?

    It’s impossible to govern.
     
  8. Pluto57

    Pluto57

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    Are you limiting all expenditures on a campaign or just expenditures by the official campaign. That is, would third part ads or campaigning be allowed?
     
  9. thewitt

    thewitt

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    Actually the Framers did not want the "everyman" to serve, they wanted land owners to serve. They were the only ones allowed to vote as well.
     
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  10. jr24

    jr24

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    No idea, just a thing I've pondered. There clearly would be some issues to iron out and campaign ads and first amendment issues come quickly to mind, much like the failed Feingold McCain campaign act.

    But finding a way to get more actual real people into Congress with bonified life experience would be nice, versus these pampered limousine lifer professional politicians who have never worked a real job in their lives.

    Well, in some of the further writings it did seem that they didn't want professional politians anyway. It's hard to judge with the massive differences is societal order between today and then.
     
  11. Pluto57

    Pluto57

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    Well, they couldn't be right about everything. That little error has been corrected as have a few others over time.
     
  12. thewitt

    thewitt

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    Clearly they did not want professional politicians. They wanted the people who were responsible to govern, and this meant land owners, people with investment in the local economy, where any actions that the government took would impact them so they would be conscientious.

    The job did not pay anything, so anyone seeking it needed to be self-reliant. No paid staffers, no lobby money... no getting rich in office.

    Things have changed dramatically.

    I'm reminded of the Ben Franklin quote, "When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic."

    Congress did this... They went from an all volunteer workforce to a highly paid, corrupt, huge expense, because they could vote themselves money...
     
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  13. jr24

    jr24

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    Well said. My kids have been nuts tonight so typing coherent thoughts has been problematic, and I was a little worried for a bit that my screaming daughter finally tipped my bad ear into tinnitus, but no, not yet.
     
  14. thewitt

    thewitt

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    I hate my tinnitus... I mix music for my fiancé's YouTube channel and when I spend a little too much time on it without a break, it can trigger and just destroy my ears for several days. Always a little going on, but when it goes over the top it's awful.
     
  15. jr24

    jr24

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    After she screamed in my bad ear I started to get a bit worried when it was still ringing over 10 minutes later, but it finally stopped.

    Still hurts a bit though, 3 hours later. She's ... shrill.
     
  16. Pluto57

    Pluto57

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    Seriously, they're not that highly paid.
     
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  17. KindOfBlue

    KindOfBlue

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    amen to that (at least the give term limits to Congress part)
     
  18. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    Some folks will say that there are term limits at every election. At least part of the problem is that incumbent name recognition and voter apathy/stupidity/candidate information (ie the low information voter) makes it difficult for a challenger to win. (Not to mention redistricting, etc). So term limits make a lot of sense. The founders never intended for politics to be a lifelong profession or a route to being wealthy.

    I think we really need a some form of run-off in the presidential race. Say 270 EC + >50% wins the general. If a candidate doesn't make 270/>50%, then the top two (2) go for the run-off under the current system. It seems to me something like this is the only way to "break" the two-party system, and give a 3rd (or 4th) party a chance.

    If the 1992 election were run under something like this, I doubt (though no one can really know) Bill would have won. No 3rd party won a greater percentage than Perot in the last 100 years.
     
  19. billorights

    billorights

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    The founders never intended that our elected officials be professional politicians. They have discovered they can vote themselves perks and make a good living and retirement. Term limits will never happen. Maybe after secession and civil war, it could be done. But that's for another generation to deal with.
     
  20. ked

    ked

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    Or, raise the voting age to 25 UNLESS you’ve served, Or are presently serving in the military.