If Rome is to live, Carthage must die

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Haldor, May 16, 2016.

  1. Haldor

    Haldor Formerly retired EE.

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    The recent thread about totalitarianism reminded me of the thoughts made in this post. I made an oblique reference in the totalitarian thread to this same issue which nobody seems to have picked up on.

    I see serious totalitarianistic trends developing here with both sides of the political debate calling for government action to implement social control over what are ultimately petty and insignificant issues. Meanwhile there is a legitimate existential threat to our way of life that is essentially being ignored by most of the "leaders" on both sides.

    I am talking about the threat of Islam. Not "extremist" Islam, not "jihadist" Islam. Plain old Islam. We insist on interpreting their goals and actions using our own frame of references which means we are truly in the dark. We talk as though what they do is because of some action we are responsible for. The solution offered is that if we are just more sensitive to their concerns we could be peaceful neighbors with Islam. Nothing could be further from the truth. Throughout its entire history Islam has been at war with all of its neighbors. We teach our children that the crusades were horrible, misguided efforts to oppress the progressive, peaceful islamics. This is a lie, Europe during the crusades was under attack and losing badly. If our European ancestors had not turned back Islam, Europe would have become part of the Caliphate and the Renaissance and Age of Enlightenment would never have happened.

    We completely misinterpret what Jihad means. Jihad is not a reaction to insults or slights. It is the organized, methodical destabilizing of Islam's unbeliever neighbors with conquest and forced reversion to Islam as the sole goal. Every believer is required to either be actively engaged in Jihad (the armed struggle to subjugate non-believers) or to pay the Zakat (Jihad tax) to fund Jihad. All conquered people are required to pay the Dhimmi tax also used for Jihad or face being executed. This is not new. This is defined in the Reliance of the Traveler, the 14th century document that defines religious law for 90% of the Islamic world.

    We mistake the Zakat and Dhimmi for charity when it is nothing of the sort. These funds are used to fund madrassa schools where only the most fundamental form of Islam is taught and children are turned into warriors. This is the reality that we face. There is no way to make nice with Islam and keep our institutions of freedom and liberty. Either we submit to Islam (as in let them control us as slaves) or we fight them. The very word Islam means submission. You really should read Reliance of the Traveler to understand exactly what we face. It is freely available online.

    http://concit.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/reliance2_complete.pdf

    The reality is that Islam tells us what they want and what they are willing to do to accomplish it. We just refuse to believe them. I guess because we find their goals and methods repugnant and also because doing so would force us to realize we are actually threatened by them. Islam has always been an expansionist religion and force is the primary method of expansion used. The last few hundred years the forces of Islam have been so outclassed by western military power that they have been muted and inert. However this is no longer true. Western nations have turned pacifist and Progressive Liberals have embraced and taught a form of cultural self loathing that is suicidal in the face of any real external threat. Our technological edge is no longer as overwhelming as it has been and the Jihadist have learned how to use our own nature and institutions against us.

    I have a sense of foreboding about what this means for our future. I don't see any really desireable outcomes. Because we have foolishly let (helped) Islam invade our countries we either let them continue to expand here or force them out while we are still able to do so. They have much higher birth rates than we do so the longer we let this go on the more difficult and ugly expelling them is going to be. Expelling Islam will require us to abandon some of our most cherished traditions (freedom of speech and religion). Doing this will very likely require us to become much more totalitarian which could take generations to return from. The alternatives to that will be to either revert to Islam or become Islam's slaves. Nothing else will permit us to coexist with Islam.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
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  2. gwalchmai

    gwalchmai Lucky Member

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    Yep, you see clearly, Haldor.
     
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  3. Haldor

    Haldor Formerly retired EE.

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    Crap, I was hoping to hear I am an idiot.
     
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  4. TheDreadnought

    TheDreadnought

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    Islam has been trying to conquer the world for 1,500 years. Their latest aggression is nothing new. America is weak today. Sooner or later we will wake up to the fact that Western Civilization and Political Islam cannot coexist peacefully. The only question is whether it will be too late or not.

    We might be able to "corrupt" the Islamists with Western values, so that they become more like the majority of Muslims here in the states. But even here in the US, 20% of Muslims support the 9/11 attackers and their goals. (Overseas it's closer to 50%).

    The root of this issue is the corrupt nature of our own government. With a strong, America-first focused government in place, we'll have no problems resisting the Islamization of the West. But that is not the path we're on.

    We're more closely following the trajectory of the Roman Empire. The Pax Americana we created with our victory in WW2 is coming to an end. During our lifetime, America will either revitalize itself and bring a new lasting peace and stability to the world, or we will not, and the world will regress into violence and instability. This is the natural state of the world which America in partnership with European democracies and a reformed Japan, has held at bay for 70 years. That era is coming to and end.

    But your point about the spread of Islam is something that will play out not over decades, but over centuries to come.
     
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  5. BobbyS

    BobbyS Truth always sounds like lies to a sinner

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    Yup, merica is gonna lay face down so the Islamys can treat us like we are their goats.
     
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  6. Paul7

    Paul7

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    Tell ISIS to coexist.

    Islam has only ever been stopped by force. These inbred throwbacks add nothing to any civilized country.
     
  7. eb07

    eb07 Sharkin'

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    The reason moderate Islam is quiet when radical Islam performs their henious acts upon any non muslim is because they do their dirty work, the work they don't want to do or cannot do, but fully support.....

    make no mistake about it, world conquest is the goal and they will never stop.....

    while the rest of the world organized religions moved on from their crusades and other warlike and non religious tendencies, simply because of modernization, the majority of the followers of mohamet have not changed in ideology, lifestyle, or thinking one bit....

    But the progressives and panty waists will have you believe that you are racist and that you are beating war drums.. until of course it is in their safe little mcmansion suburbs but by then it will be too late and it will either be come fight or submit. There are a few on this site who preach this..... it amazes me
     
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  8. RonS

    RonS Millennium Member

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    They have a plan. They are working the plan. One neck at a time. All it takes is manpower, cheap knives and traitors in positions of power.
     
  9. MO Fugga

    MO Fugga Malt Liqra® Lifetime Member

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    I have been beating the drum of Genocide for many years now. There is no other solution. Anyone who thinks there may be is a ****ing idiot, and can move their sorry ass to Syria.
     
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  10. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    At the end of the day, Carthage died and so did Rome.
     
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  11. MO Fugga

    MO Fugga Malt Liqra® Lifetime Member

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    Good thing we're not Rome... yet. Hopefully American Exceptionalism will see us go far beyond it.
     
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  12. AC37

    AC37 SystemicAnomaly

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    There is no lack of arms to stop radicalized Islam.

    There is usually a lack resolve.

    And without the fall of Rome, better things like America could not have come along.

    Also, Rome wasn't destroyed from the outside as you seem to be suggesting. it destroyed itself from the inside because it was busier fighting itself over a myriad of secondary and tertiary issues than uniting in the name of two or three primary ones. Which is precisely where America seems to be today.

    Nations and empires fall, but people and ideas live on.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
  13. MO Fugga

    MO Fugga Malt Liqra® Lifetime Member

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    Rome also fell to a widespread humanitarian/migrant crisis in Eastern Europe. Talk about history repeating itself. They were running from the Huns, and took the path of least resistance.

    http://conservativepapers.com/news/...igration-led-to-the-fall-of-the-roman-empire/
     
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  14. AC37

    AC37 SystemicAnomaly

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    While that may or may not be true, i along with many others am understandably suspicious of any partisan source of information, especially one that ends up coming across as heavily biased and bigoted against different races and religions, and in the opening paragraph at that.

    America built itself as the land of tolerance and inclusion, with an active focus on
    immigration. At least, those seem to be some of the central principles enshrined in our Constitution and recorded by our history books. Running from that now makes no sense.
     
  15. MO Fugga

    MO Fugga Malt Liqra® Lifetime Member

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    IMO, such things are fluid, over time, and my stand on it is that it worked well in the beginning, but the state of the world has changed enormously in the last century or so. We must adapt and change to overcome. That means Immigration must come under the strictest scrutiny, and those who would undermine our nation dealt with decisively.

    ETA, as for your statement in bold, our enemies see this as a perfect workaround to achieve their agenda, which is lethal to our way of life. And they're winning.
     
  16. Haldor

    Haldor Formerly retired EE.

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    Carthage was destroyed by Rome and Rome flourished for hundreds of years afterwards.
     
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  17. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    In the end, it still crumbled. The sand of time favors no empires or civilizations. Except for the Chinese because they're still around.
     
  18. MO Fugga

    MO Fugga Malt Liqra® Lifetime Member

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    They have the luxury of having a civilization measured in millennia, rather than centuries. But a helluva lot of them apparently had to be killed in the last century to make it continue to look feasible. Islam doesn't have the luxury of making them a huge target, because their government has no problem extinguishing anything that truly threatens them, unlike our current crop of idiots.
     
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  19. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    The Chinese had the luxury of geography ala the USA in WWI and WWII.

    They also breed like rabbits.
     
  20. MO Fugga

    MO Fugga Malt Liqra® Lifetime Member

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    And that in itself is nature's best survival strategy. Birthrates are down the terlet in the western world. Muslim colonists worldwide know this, and is part of their winning strategy. Sadly, our ignorance is their bliss.
     
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