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If a friend sold a shotgun to someone out of state? Need advise.

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by yellolab, Jan 10, 2018.

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  1. yellolab

    yellolab

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    Hi everyone, hoping this is the proper forum.
    Hypothetically speaking, if a college friend of my daughter bought her father a cheap shotgun from Dicks for an Xmas present and it was not what he wanted, and she sold it for the cash to buy him what he really wanted and in the course of conversation she mentioned that while she sold it with my state(VT), the guy she sold it to was from out of state(NH)! She thought as long as the transaction occurred in VT, she was OK. After informing her that ignorance is no excuse(21 year old kid), she is thinking about her options now.
    I am thinking she should contact a lawyer for suggestions on what to do- thinking he may call ATF and explain the situation, to gauge what they might do.
    What do you guys think? Constructive advice only please, she now knows she messed up big time.
    Thank you.
     
  2. Webologist

    Webologist

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    Hypothetically speaking, as long as the transfer was brokered by FFLs she's fine.

    I'm not sure the ATF would be my first stop, if the buyer already took possession. I would talk to the buyer and set up a transfer via an FFL in the buyer's state first if they were amenable to it.
    https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/unlicensed-persons
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
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  3. Leigh

    Leigh

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    Is VT/NH a border state?
    Original purchaser of a long gun 18 or older (and recipient of gift)?
    Nobody messed up as far as I can see......
    Then again, I live in the Commonwealth of Kentucky.
     
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  4. fl_snub_noz

    fl_snub_noz

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    all good.. just needs to ship from an ffl(gun store) which normally charge a small fee and pay shipping to the buyers ffl(gun store) which will charge him a small fee and fill out paperwork so all is legal
     
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  5. yellolab

    yellolab

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  6. F14A

    F14A

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    Wasn't this a private sale? Person to person?

    If there are no offical records required between private sales..

    I see nothing & heard nothing..
     
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  7. Leigh

    Leigh

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    AND if it wasn't a handgun-to-handgun exchange, I see no issue.....YMMV....
     
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  8. yellolab

    yellolab

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    That's what she wants to do. I advised against that. Is the buyer ever does something wrong, the shotgun is easily traced to her. I guess I wonder why someone would travel to another state to buy a cheap shotgun, if they could just buy it local. Makes me think the guy she sold it to it not legally permitted to own firearm. Dunno, maybe I am over thinking this. End of the day it's not my circus, not my monkeys, but I feel for the kid. She's scared.
     
  9. Leigh

    Leigh

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    Face to face (for me, both Kentucky residents) I show buyer my ID (same state, both of us 21 or over for handgun).....nothing else required here. Transaction completed.

    No offense OP but the whole "what if he is a felon and it's traced back to me if used in a crime" is not just overrated, it is practically absurd in the real world.

    Either you are physically "connected" to the crime scene or you are not.

    Simple, really.
     
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  10. F14A

    F14A

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    ^ Your state may be different, but here, there are no laws between private firearms sales.

    Now, some folks request a ffl transfer. There's nothing wrong in that however it is not required. Most sales between private individuals don't even involve a receipt. Cash & carry. Or, trades between owners etc..

    What happens between private citizens does not require ffl.
    Your state might be different.
     
  11. Flying-Dutchman

    Flying-Dutchman

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    Since it is a long gun and VT and NH are contiguous States it should be OK as long as VT and NH allow long gun sales without a FFL.
     
  12. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee

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    Assuming that neither the friend nor the buyer have an FFL, let me pare this one down . . . .
     
  13. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee

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    Let me also add that I'm pretty sure the old "adjoining state" rule went out in about 1986.
     
  14. Just_plinking

    Just_plinking

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    I'd ask to buy it back, and offer some compensation for the trouble.
     
  15. PEC-Memphis

    PEC-Memphis Scottish Member

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    I don't think state law applies here, it is federal law. While federal law allows long gun purchase from out-of-state buyers from FFLs; unfortunately, I don't think it applies to out-of-state person-to-person sales/buyers.

    The seller could go to the purchaser's state, or vice-versa, and complete the transaction through an FFL (for long guns).
     
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  16. DJ Niner

    DJ Niner Moderator

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    I'm not a lawyer, don't play one on TV, and this is not legal advice. That said...

    As I understand it, if neither are FFLs (licensees), seller and buyer both violated Federal law.

    GunlawQuestion.JPG

    If the person has a point-of-contact for the buyer, they could call the buyer, explain the problem, and suggest they find a FFL dealer in the buyer's state that could do a legal transfer from the seller to the dealer to the buyer (note: not all FFL dealers will accept a gun from a non-licensee, nor are they required to do so), and offer to pay any/all fees associated with the transfer to correct the problem. If the buyer balks, pointing out that the buyer is also in violation of Federal law may help in gaining cooperation (or it may not, depending on the attitude of the buyer and the reason they bought the gun out-of-state in the first place).

    If the buyer doesn't want to cooperate, or if the seller doesn't want to contact the buyer, the seller could contact a lawyer to contact the BATFE on the client's behalf, and (hopefully) broker a deal to correct the problem. I would NOT suggest talking to the BATFE directly, as to explain the situation, the seller would have to start out by describing how they committed a crime, which brings to mind the phrase "Low-hanging fruit".
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018 at 12:18 AM
  17. mreed911

    mreed911 Kool-Aid

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    Or everyone could just forget about it and stop worrying. You can't really unring this bell... and ringing it over and over in front of the bell police isn't the best course of action.

    If the buyer wants to rectify things, great. If not, going after him is the same as going after yourself.

    We have the fifth for a reason.
     
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  18. DocCasualty

    DocCasualty

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    Find out if long arm sales with adjacent states are legal within your state. They are in mine. If not you need expert legal advice.
     
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  19. mreed911

    mreed911 Kool-Aid

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    They're illegal under FEDERAL law when person-to-person, so this doesn't matter.

    The only cross-state purchases/pickups that are valid are from FFL's in the other state, where allowed, of long guns.
     
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