[Warp]

Whenever the issue of semi-auto reliability being related to user training, my thought is this:

To test your gun's reliability, you might consider handing it to the weakest newbie you can find. If the gun jams, limpwrists, or otherwise malfunctions with that person, maybe it will unexpectedly do the same in your hands?

Why should it malfunction in your hands, if you have the training and skill of a ninja seal wearing a walmart beret? Because if ever you were to be shot in a self-defense incident, maybe your typical target form, technique, and strength would be diminshed down to the level of a newbie

What say you?

I don't know that it's strength so much as it is some concept of how to hold the gun. It takes precious little strength to prevent a limp wrist.

I have held my Glocks as loose as I dare, just short of risking a tragedy due to losing control of muzzle direction, without inducing limp wristing. Just one finger around the grip, holding it just enough to point downrange. And that's with cheap weak bulk FMJ even

Something like this.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTb2yOq4t0I

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btn8kr1jgUA

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTb2yOq4t0I



As long as you put some mass from your hand/arm behind the gun and high enough on the grip, it seems to be fine. Now, if you go full crazy like some guy on YT years ago and basically grab the gun from 90 degrees off to the side with only your thumb behind the gun, well, you need a nice big heavy steel frame to hope to get that to work

 

[Warp]

I worry about having my grip compromised by injury when shooting my pistols to about the same extent I worry about having my ability to deliver a punch (or other hand strike) compromised by an injury.

It can happen. No realistic reason to deny it or pretend it can't happen. That's why I've trained to have options.

FWIW, even using a DA/DAO revolver doesn't make us immune from experiencing an injured/compromised grip problem.

For example, even a momentary unexpected injury (impact, etc) which hinders full index finger control and function might result in an unexpectedly short-stroked DA trigger during trigger recovery, which might create some inopportune mechanical conditions that prevent another trigger press.

Having some knowledge and experience in what might happen, under the worst conditions, and how to deal with the results, is probably better than assuming, hoping and pretending that only optimal things may occur.

There's arguably some practical wisdom to be found in the line of thought, "If it can happen, it will happen, sometime", and we risk ignoring it at our peril.

Of course, on the other hand, there's probably no shortage of folks who seem to only "like" preparing for one type of problem, or only those problems for which they've become adept at addressing, of those who won't seek out more experienced people to better educate them about the things they don't know, but which might happen.

One of the things that makes me shudder, as an instructor, is the way some folks don't take the necessary steps to maximize safety when devising some "practice" method of problem-solving and reactionary drills. Getting hurt during training is really, really counter-productive (and it understandably drives the HR/RM people nuts).

What steps do you suggest people take in case their hand function is compromised to the point that their semi auto pistol 'limp wrists'?

Do you have any recommendation on how we can intentionally (and safely) hold the pistol to induce these malfunctions on the range?

Would the immediate action for such an event differ from the remedial action for a fail to extract/feed malfunction due to ammo or magazine, IE, tap/rack/assses?