I would like to fly

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by N1PJ, Jan 14, 2005.

  1. N1PJ

    N1PJ NRA Member

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    I would like to learn how to fly someday. Right now I am very limited on funds, I guess I will have to resort to holding an rc radio and watching my model zip across the sky for now.
     
  2. TimC

    TimC Uhavthecontrols

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  3. Texas T

    Texas T TX expatriate CLM

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    Save your money and starting reading flight instruction manuals and start practicing on MS Flt Sim. Understanding the basics and what does what will help when you actually get some seat time. And I think it's better to try to knock out your training hours all at once instead of trying to squeeze in an hour or two a month.
     
  4. Guest

    I took 4 hours of dual instruction in a two place ultralight trainer (three axis of control conventional airframe, pusher) from a BFI, basic flight instructor. After 4 hours I was ready to solo my ultralight airplane. I was an rc pilot, had some helicopter time (private lessons) and had flown paragliders solo. I’ve been flying my ultralight for years and now need only a couple cross country flights to finish a private pilot’s license. I want to build a two seater, experimental.

    The cost of lessons was $75 per hour. You can buy a good airworthy ultralight airplane for less than $10,000, often for under $5000. Every aspect of ultralight flying is cheaper than general aviation. I’ve flown my airplane all over the country, Midwest and northwest. I typically fly at 5000-6000’ msl over the mountains to take photos. It is the most affordable way to fly. I feel that because mankind dreamed of flight for so long that now that it is so easy and affordable it would be wrong not to fly.
     
  5. Guest

    I took this photo with a wing mounted camera. I'm flying over the Cascades.
     
  6. HKMark23

    HKMark23 Millennium Member

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    What about a Recreational Pilot License, that will cost a bunch less and let you build time......
     
  7. buzzboy618ar

    buzzboy618ar

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    Nice looking bird 12oGlockhigh... i'm guessing by it's name that it's part 103 legal? Is it a manufactured UL or kit?
     
  8. Guest

    The Aerolite103 can be built FAR Part 103 legal with the right engine. Mine uses the 2SI (Two Stroke International) F460 engine with a belt reduction drive. It is substantially lighter than a Rotax 447 with B gear box reduction drive.

    Aeroworks in Millersburg, Ohio is the manufacture. They produce kits and ready to fly ultralights. With larger engines and fuel tanks, the Aerolite 103 becomes the Aerolite, which needs to licensed experimental.

    My plane was factory built. It was an Oshkosh special I couldn't pass up. I drove to Millersburg to pick it up. The engine was broke in and the plane had been test flown. We immediately disassembled it and packed it in a 15' moving van for the trip home. I've disassembled and reassembled it twice now for cross country moves, both in the dead of winter. Plus preventative maintenance replacements, I feel like I built it.

    The best part is that the pilot carries a handgun in the cockpit.
     
  9. Roogalator

    Roogalator Senior Grackle

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    Let me get this straight 12oGlockHigh, you fly that thing without packing a chute? What happens if the fabric on the wings develops a nice big rip?
     
  10. Guest

    What happens if any fabric covered airplane gets a rip in the fabric? Nothing, they keep flying with a little added trim. They don’t get rips in the fabric because that fabric is tough, it has a life expectancy of many years, it gets inspected during every preflight and it gets replaced at the first sign of deterioration.

    Actually, I do fly with a ballistic parachute, a BRS. It is the black box (actually a soft nylon pack) behind my seat. The parachute is pulled from its pack by a rocket at a speed of over 100mph. The rocket is deployed by pulling the T handle which can be seen over my head. The parachute is attached to the airframe at the CG just ahead of the engine mount.

    If I ever had a catastrophic airframe failure, I could deploy my parachute and I would come down safely with the plane. BRS has over 100 documented saves with these parachutes. BRS and other companies are developing ballistic parachutes for GA airplanes and commercial airliners. I feel safer in my ultralight than I do in a Cessna 172. There’s the parachute, plus the stall speed, landing speed, and landing distance that make my plane safer in an emergency.
     
  11. NetNinja

    NetNinja Always Faithful

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    That's so cool!! I have always wanted an ultralight!
    I wonder if you can fly them arround Hartsfield internationl? HEHEH ;)
     
  12. Roogalator

    Roogalator Senior Grackle

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    Hang on a sec 12oGlockHigh. How the hell does that chute deploy? If it went straight up it would smack into the underside of the wing and if it went straight back it would get shredded by the prop. At least this is the way it appears from the photograph. WTF?
     
  13. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

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    The chute is "shot out" at an angle so it will clear the airframe and prop.


    N1PJ,
    I started flying in 1960 but didn't get into ultralight aircraft until a couple years ago after retiring.

    I agree that UL is an excellent way to get into flying. All flying is expensive but UL is probably one of the cheapest ways to get in the air.
    And it's a lot of fun.
    Then when the money is available it's a very easy transision to light aircraft.

    12oGlockHigh,
    That's a good looking bird. How small a field can it operate out of?
     
  14. Guest

    M2 Carbine is correct about the chute being fired at an angle. Take another look at the 5000’ view photo. Right under the black chute bag (with the white circular and rectangular patches on it) you will see a black tube pointed back toward the camera. That is the rocket tube and it is pointed parallel to the wing behind the struts.

    In an emergency I would shut the engine off, if it wasn’t already stopped. Then I would pull the handle which ignites the rocket. The rocket pulls the chute out of its bag and a Kevlar harness which is zip tied to the frame and trailing edge of the wing. This allows the plane to hang from the chute which is stored under the wing. This set up is required because the plane is a pusher with the engine mounted on top of the wing.

    There is a recorder save of an Aerolite103 with this setup. The good news was that the plane was ok it was a pilot problem. Three relatives bought and built the plane. Two had taken lessons and were flying it. The third got impatient and thought he could fly. He took off, but could not get oriented on the field to land. After realizing he couldn’t land he deployed the chute to get back on the ground. Yeah, dumb.

    I only need a couple hundred feet to takeoff and land. If there are no trees to get over I can use a ball field in a park or at a school. My buddies and I have landed on RC airplane fields before and in parks on baseball fields.

    I’ve flown helicopters, GA fixed wing, paragliders, and ultralights. I think ultralights are by far the most fun way to fly. GA was created out of a need for transportation. Ultralights were created out of a need to fly for fun. Think of an ultralight as a dirt bike in the sky. Most GA guys hate ultralights and carry a lot of prejudice against them and their pilots. The ultralight industry has grown up since the early 70s and we have a good safety record now. Everyone who has flown my plane comes away with a big smile on their face. The photo, my Aerolite103, is actually of a friend flying it for the first time. I took the photo. He has a pilot’s license and had never flown an ultralight.
     
  15. GlocknAK

    GlocknAK

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    N1PJ,

    If you want to learn to fly and your funds are limited, I would suggest looking into getting your Sport Pilot Certificate. It takes a lot less instruction to receive, and the flight training can be conducted in aircraft that are cheaper than aircraft normally utilized in flight training.

    Also, unless you have previously been denied a medical certificate or had your medical suspended or revoked, you do not need to spend the money on a medical certificate. All you need is a valid driver's license.

    This license is much easier to attain than the recreational certificate, that actually saves you very little money.

    Also, unlike ultralight flying, any flight time or training that you accumulate while in the pursuit of or while holding a Sport Pilot Certificate counts towards the experience required to attain additional certificates or ratings.

    There are some limits on the aircraft that you can fly, but they are "real" airplanes as opposed to ultralights (not knocking ultralights here, hence the quotes). You are also allowed to carry one passenger.

    Good luck with getting started. Two more peices of advice. 1) Read everything that you can that is pertanent to achieving your certificate. It will save you a lot of time and money in the long run. 2) Have the financial means to finish your training before you start. You don't have to have all the money in hand, but know that you will be able to get it. Long breaks in training will cause you to lose proficiency. The more often you fly, the more proficient you stay.

    Sorry this got long. Good luck again.
     
  16. Guest

    I know you weren’t knocking ultralights, but ultralights ARE REAL airplanes. If you get in it and fly, what else could it be? They just aren’t General Aviation airplanes. The Sport Pilot license and the Light Sport Aircraft definition (both Special Light Sport Aircraft (factory built) and Experimental Light Sport Aircraft (amateur built)) were created to license most ultralight pilots and their aircraft. That’s not my opinion, that’s what the FAA says. I attended countless FAA/EAA briefings at the EAA regionals and Oshkosh.

    Case in point, my plane can be licensed as an Experimental Light Sport Aircraft. If I wanted to add a larger fuel tank or bigger/heavier engine that’s what I’d have to do to stay legal. There are only a few GA airplanes that will meet the LSA criteria; some cubs, luscombs, champs etc. Many LSA of the future will be yesterday’s ultralights. Then, will they be any more REAL? Not to some I’m sure. No offense taken ; )
     
  17. GlocknAK

    GlocknAK

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    I really didn't mean to knock em :) In fact, if I ever get an offer I'd love to go fly in one. Might even wind up building one some day if I can con the wife into the idea (fat chance). I was just caving to the general conception of the public.

    I fly a CRJ for a regional here in the states. The funny thing to me is to hear our passengers talking about not liking the plane because it's not a real airliner. LOL The thing weighs over 50,000 pounds at max takeoff! Okay, so it's no A-380. What more do you want? ;-)

    Anyway, I love my job, and like flying the CRJ.... but ultralights gotta be a blast:) Blue skies 12oGlockHigh.

    Now I'll stop, before I hijack this post ;-)
     
  18. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

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    N1PJ,
    I'm not trying to hijack your thread either. I figure the more you hear, the clearer your options will be.

    However you do it, like GlocknAK said, try to be money ahead.
    <<<<<<< My wife soloed in a little over 9 hours. Because we were broke she was lucky to fly an hour a month. If her lessons were closer together no doubt she would have soloed within 7 hours.

    12oGlockHigh, I think you have seen in other threads I'm flying a PPC because it's the only bird I've found that I can fly out of my place.
    Give me your opinion.
    In the thread "Thinkin' 'bout gyroplane.." I posted a couple pictures of my place.
    I'm sure (at least I think) your bird would be able to take off from my SE 500 foot runway, but what do you think about landing/slipping in over the wires?
    How about taking off and landing on my RC field, 300 feet?

    A UL pilot that flew the delta wing type said it wouldn't be a problem with his, but he had sold it.

    The guy I bought my PPC from told me he couldn't land at my place;Q

    I'm also thinking about going "Experimental Light Sport Aircraft", maybe even with my PPC, after I look into it a little.
    Most of the PPC's I've seen have been "heavy ultralights";)
     
  19. Guest

    M2 Carbine:

    I’ve shared two fields with ultralight clubs with a good mix of ultralights, PPCs, trikes, and fixed wings. I’ve flown in different types and watched them fly. A conventional, three axis of control airplane like mine, has many advantages over a PPC for getting in and out of tight places. High powered trikes, weight shift control, also are much more maneuverable. Plus they climb like bats out of Hades. The best flying ultralight airplane bar-non is the Kolb Firestar. I have half a dozen friends flying them. They are high wing pushers similar to, but superior to my plane. They have true STOL capability. They climb so steep they scare on lookers. And a good pilot can slip one into your back poket.

    The manual and Company web site state take-off and landing distance for my plane is 100-200’. Take-off distance depends on take-off weight of the aircraft. Landing Distance depends on gross weight of the aircraft and whether a braking system is used or not. Baring tall trees (100'+) at the end of the runway, 300’ is more than adequate for our planes. When you have more control over your aircraft power lines on approach won’t seem so bad. If you want to talk to a Firestar builder/pilot I’ll put you in contact with my mentor.
     
  20. NetNinja

    NetNinja Always Faithful

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    I like this thread. I am learning a lot.

    It's time for a newbee question.

    Where can ultralights be flown. Since I am unfamiliar with general aviation laws.

    Can you fly those things arround metropolitain cities?

    Can you land them in a metro area kids baseball field and take off again?

    Sorry to the silly questions but I really have no idea.