I heard something

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning' started by Swattie, Jul 28, 2007.

  1. Swattie

    Swattie Cry Havoc

    Messages:
    984
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Location:
    KS
    It is said you men need 1 gram of protien for every pound they weigh and women need 1/2 gram for every pound.

    I have never consumed 205 grams in my life and I have had great results. Is it hoopla by the supplement dealers or truth?
     
  2. DBradD

    DBradD Guest

    Messages:
    2,848
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    How's it going dude?--haven't seen you around here in a while.

    I think it's more complicated than that, and needs to be a % of total calories. It depends heavily on the goal also.

    I think protein equalling 30-35% of total calories works well for me and probably a lot of other folks.

    For me, that doesn't work out to be 1 g/lb unless I'm eating a lot of calories. I weigh 180 +/- and shoot for 1800 calories/day when I'm not trying to gain or lose weight. At 30%, that's only 135 g of protein/day. If I were eating 2400 total, then that would be put me at 180g of protein, so I'd be at 1 g/lb. I would gain fat and muscle pretty fast at that many calories, probably about 2x as much fat as muscle based on previous experience.

    Folks are different though. For example, I think BCR is a hard gainer and eats much more than that at a similar bodyweight. I think he probably eats more like 1.5-1.75 g/lb and many more calories when he's trying to gain muscle.

    One thing to keep in mind is that it's not safe to eat more than 40% of calories from protein over an extended period of time.
     

  3. Shabcat

    Shabcat Guest

    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2005
    Where did you glean that from? :)
     
  4. DBradD

    DBradD Guest

    Messages:
    2,848
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Shabcat, my most solid source is The Paleo Diet for Athletes by Friel and Cordain. Eating more than that supposedly causes rabbit starvation. I think that's pretty interesting. For a general description:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation

    I have seen 35% quoted by others, but those were just dudes typing on websites. Friel and Cordain, IMO, do a decent job of citing research and both are highly educated on diet and physiology--so I personally trust them.
     
  5. BCR

    BCR BIGASS!!!!

    Messages:
    2,827
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Yup.

    I weigh between 180-185 right now and eat 310 grams of protein a day and 3500 calories. With those numbers I was actually loosing about a pound a week for the past couple of months.

    Just last week I re-did my diet and am now eating 350g of protein and 4000 calories.

    Over this past winter I went buck wild and was getting 330g of protein and 5000 calories. I gained about 15 pounds that way and was at my heaviest, 195ish.
     
  6. Swattie

    Swattie Cry Havoc

    Messages:
    984
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Location:
    KS
    I probably consume about 40 - 50 grams of protien a day (maybe a little more) And the rest is Good carbs (whole grains fruits and veggies). I probably consume 1000 - 1300 cals a day.
     
  7. Swattie

    Swattie Cry Havoc

    Messages:
    984
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Location:
    KS
    For what it is worth, Extra weight, either fat or muscle, does wear down your joints over time. I wouldn't worry so much about being big, Healthy is fine.
     
  8. DBradD

    DBradD Guest

    Messages:
    2,848
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Dayum! Trying to starve yourself to death?!
     
  9. California Jack

    California Jack Millennium Member

    Messages:
    5,264
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 1999
    Hey DBD,

    Any idea what the Dr.s Eades or the dead Dr. Atkins have to say about rabbit starvation?

    My guess would be eat more fat.
     
  10. ateamer

    ateamer NRA4EVR

    Messages:
    10,803
    Likes Received:
    5,624
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Location:
    In the hallway - it's on cuz!
    I think that for the most part, all that counting grams and calories is way overrated. Just eat a lot of good quality food that tastes good, train hard and you will grow and get stronger.
     
  11. DBradD

    DBradD Guest

    Messages:
    2,848
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    I have never read what either recommends, but I'd guess that your guess is right.

    In my only nutrition book, Paleo for Athletes, Cordain and Friel give wide macronutrient ranges. They show a sample paleo diet day and I think it came out something like 25/35/40 or maybe even more fat.

    I have a strange problem with that. Fat doesn't do squat to keep me from feeling hungry. Protein is what usually helps me with that. Lately, I've been eating a half a cup of walnuts or macadamia nuts for the bulk of my fat. I've been very tempted lately to cut that in favor of about twice that mass of protein and carbs.

    I've also noticed another weird thing lately. When I eat precisely 40/30/30 for a few days, I start to feel really deprived. This has happened two weeks in a row. Then, if I eat to my satisfaction, I end up with 45-50% carbs. That kinda goes against the low carb diets.
     
  12. JimBianchi

    JimBianchi Da Da CLM

    Messages:
    7,039
    Likes Received:
    1,628
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Back in the 80's (SoCal) when I was a rabid bobybuilder and legal steriod user(prescription!) the rule of thumb was one gram of protein to one pound of lean body mass, as a minumum, with 2 hours a day lifting to failure and 6 on 1 off schedule. Cardio only on the day off.

    If you did work out enough all that expensive protein went right through you!

    Lots of big dudes used that forumal.

    Pre-contest it changed a lot, but for shear mass and strenght that was the program.

    For the girls (and girlie men) who did not want to bulk up, no roids of course, 5 and 2 schedule, 1.5 hrs, heavey resistance and lots of cardio. Diet was .5 grams per pound lean body mass.

    Lean body mass was thought to be your body weight at less than 5% body fat. (for me, in 1986 that was 190, in 1991 it was 250 or so. I'm to tall to be a serious pro, oh well)

    Since all my injuries piled up I haven't paid much attentin to the mass builders in 15 yrs.

    Who know what it is today?
     
  13. BCR

    BCR BIGASS!!!!

    Messages:
    2,827
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Healthy isn't good enough for me.

    I want to constantly progress, whether it be getting bigger or stronger or both.

    I'm not a big guy at all, so I'm not worried about my joints.
     
  14. BCR

    BCR BIGASS!!!!

    Messages:
    2,827
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    That's about 2 meals for me.

    If I did that I would dwindle down to about 140. LOL!

    Out of curiosity, how tall are you and what do you weigh?
     
  15. Swattie

    Swattie Cry Havoc

    Messages:
    984
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Location:
    KS
    5'11" and 205. I am slimming some because my bulk made me less flexible and slower when I ran. It wasn't fat. I will say I have a hardertime losing muscle than I did fat. I was at 235 however so 30 pounds shed ain't so bad.
     
  16. DBradD

    DBradD Guest

    Messages:
    2,848
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    You're trying to lose muscle? Just trying to understand.

    I'm 5'-8" and about 180-185, so about the same proportions as you. When I try to stay skinnier than that, I have a lot less energy, recover slower from workouts, etc. Why do you think 5'-11" and 205 is a bad combination?

    Why not let form follow function? In other words, work on performance and your body will take whatever size and shape is best for that performance.

    I heard this asked somewhere else a while back, something like: "How big do my arms need to be to do [whatever]?" The answer was something like "Work your way up to the point that you're doing [whatever] then measure your arms--that's the right size."

    I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to alter size for aesthetics, but that's a totally different ballgame than trying to alter size for performance.

    Then again, what do I know? Not much.
     
  17. supadupamikey

    supadupamikey Guest

    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    I recently started a food diary on Fitday.com and I'm surprised at how much fat I eat per day. I'm not shooting for any certain ratios or trying to purposely eat a lot of fat, or not eat a lot of fat or whatever; I just eat good food. I'm doing Paleo by the way.

    Over the past week my averages are:
    Fat: 46%
    Carbs: 28%
    Protein: 26%

    However, there are days when 60-70% of my calories come from fat. My average calorie intake over the past week is 2671.

    At those percentages listed above, my average daily intake is:
    Fat: 145 grams
    Carbs: 176 grams
    Protein: 163 grams

    I'm 5'4" and weigh 130lbs at the grocery store (clothed with my p3at). I'm guessing I'm around 6-8% bodyfat. So I'm getting over 1gram per pound. It works for me. I'm not gaining or losing. If I eat enough to gain, my abs start disappearing and I freak out (oh no! bodyfat!) and cut back. ;)

    My Fitday profile is public if anyone is really really bored:
    http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=supadupamikey
     
  18. DBradD

    DBradD Guest

    Messages:
    2,848
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Dayum SDMikey! I just checked out your log. Cool stuff. I keep a spreadsheet sometimes.

    I thought Cordain has disdain for coconut milk.

    The high fat percentage overall doesn't surprise me. If I ate whatever I felt like, I'd probably eat 3-4x as much nuts. In the Paleo for Athletes book, their sample day had much higher fat and lower carbs also, about like your percentages. It's pretty hard to get a high % of carbs on Paleo, at least in my experience.
     
  19. supadupamikey

    supadupamikey Guest

    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Fitday is free. It's easy to use, just search for what you ate and put in the quantity. It has quite a few foods listed already, but i've had to add several things. Once you've added them before, they drop down in a quick list. It gives you some basic reports detailing calories, ratios, etc. i like it. its been over a week and to my surprise, i'm still using it. i figured i'd get bored with it after a couple days.

    i dont recall Cordain's opinion on coconut milk. its natural, so i'm eating it. :) i forget which one of the paleo doctors actually suggested canola oil (!?!)... um, no thanks! as far as diet, exercise, etc. i read everything i can and then make my own educated decisions and see what works for me.

    i could put a hurting on some macadamias, but i've kinda grown tired of all the other tree nuts. a few months back, i dumped like $100 on 12 or 15 pounds of raw, unsalted nuts from nutsonline.com. i also got some dried coconut (unsweetened!). once i finished up the last few pounds i have left (pecans, walnuts, almonds), i'll get more macadamias, but they're like $12 or $14 per pound, vs like like $6 for everything else.

    i agree with you on it being difficult to get a high number of carbs when doing paleo. you can only eat sooo many veggies and after a few cups, i'm either stuffed, or tired of chewing, or both! i could eat alot more fruit, but i really think we should limit the sugar intake.
     
  20. DBradD

    DBradD Guest

    Messages:
    2,848
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    His opinion of coconuts is here:

    http://www.thepaleodiet.com/nutritional_tools/fatsnuts.shtml

    Hmmm. Donno about coconut milk. In a way, it seems as "paleo" as any food can possibly be. Is this his only official exception to "if you can spear it or pick it, you should eat it"?

    Cordain likes canola oil according to Paleo for Athletes.